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To: Judges Gone Wild
We are more akin to Republican Rome. We should look at why Republican Rome fell.

The Roman Republic fell when the backbone of the Roman Legions, the citizen-soldier in the mold of Cincinnatus with a primary loyalty to the Republic, was replaced in the days of Marius by professional soldiers with a primary loyalty to their own commanders.

The greed of the patrician class in monopolizing the ownership of vast areas of land, however, greatly contributed to the economic ruining of the citizen soldier and his dissappearance.

America has succeeded where the Roman Republic failed by maintaining a strong middle class, by curbing the excesses of the monopolies, by curbing the excesses of the mob and by a military culture that would not dream of EVER staging a coup de etat.

It is a very tricky juggling act that America has accomplished so far.

Once any one of those balls falls, the American Republic will go the way of the Roman Republic.

55 posted on 08/05/2007 11:09:58 AM PDT by Polybius
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To: Polybius

“””Once any one of those balls falls, the American Republic will go the way of the Roman Republic.”””

Damn gravity!


58 posted on 08/05/2007 11:21:01 AM PDT by sodpoodle ( Despair - man's surrender. Laughter - God's redemption)
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To: Polybius; Fraxinus
Polybius, good points all around. The legions eventually swore alliegance to the Emperor rather than the Senate and People of Rome.

I think Gaius Marius implemented many military reforms that probably save Rome from being overrun by Barbarians. The history of the First Century AD was Rome’s transition from an overgrown city state to an empire. Its Republican government elected two Consuls (Generals and effective heads of state) for one year. Marius broke the tradition of not repeating as Consul (seven times-he did great with the first six-the seventh was a disaster). Later Sulla became dictator for several years, although he later retired. This was a double edged sword. Republican leadership was frequently pathetic. Consuls were incompetent or ineffective. Of course, Julius Caesar’s rise to power eventually caused the destruction of the Republic. Caesar was a very effective leader and expanded the Empire to include modern day France, Belgium and parts of Holland and Germany. However, with that and the civil war that followed his assassination, Augustus was able to collect all the Republican powers in one man.

To compare this to the United States is difficult, since our republic has probably endure two strong man challenges (Lincoln and FDR). Lincoln saved the Republic, but changed it for ever. The 10th Amendment means nothing today. The Federal Government became all powerful. Later FDR increased the power of the Federal Government to institute institutional changes that allows government to manipulate our lives, our economy with a huge mega state. LBJ added to this power grab.

I suppose FDR would be our Augustus, Clinton a mix of Caligua and Tiberius (no Tiberius was too good for Clinton).

It may be that the rotten Roman State in the 5th Century was not inevitable in the First Century BC, just as a rotten USA is not inevitable despite indications of decay in our moral and civic virtue.

89 posted on 08/06/2007 6:48:03 AM PDT by GeorgefromGeorgia
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