California - Reports of deaths in Mojave explosion (thought to be rocket explosion)

kget.com ^ | July 26, 2007

[r9etb]

They had an explosion a couple months ago. This is not sounding like what the spaceport needs.

Sure isn't. What's really frustrating is, it's not like they're working with new and unknown stuff -- people know how to properly handle this stuff, and have been doing so for decades.

My guess is that it's probably a procedures issue: they're being loosey-goosey with how they handle stuff, and not being careful about how they put things back together, and things get broken as a result. (The failure of Elon Musk's rocket last year was for the same reason.)

This is one of the problems I've seen with "commercial" ventures. While NASA's oversight requirements are probably excessive (and thus excessively expensive), they're based on decades of experience, aimed at stopping things that have actually gone wrong. Which is to say, NAsA's safety program is not all bad.

To a lot of people, "commercializing space" means doing away with the supposedly excessive oversight that makes NAsA expensive. And I see an arrogance that leads them to throwing out the good stuff, along with the bad.

If these folks are really serious about making money on space, especially for programs carrying passengers, they're really going to need to address their safety programs -- and increase their costs.

[anymouse]

SpaceDev built the hybrid rocket engine for SS1. So far nothing on their website at http://www.spacedev.com

The other competing rocket engine maker for SS1 was XCOR, located just down the road from Scaled Composites. Nothing on their website either at http://www.xcor.com

Also HMX, another hybrid rocket engine research company works with Scaled Composites. Their website is http://www.hmx.com

Interorbital Systems also does liquid rocket testing in Mojave. Their website is http://www.interorbital.com

All of these groups know each other, so this will be hard on all of them.

[r9etb]

This is dangerous stuff they are doing. They aren't sitting in some cubicle somewhere working on TPS reports all day.

Yes and no. They're not working with anything that's significantly different from other rockets. The technology is pretty mature: rockets are not all that dangerous anymore, unless you are careless, mishandle them, or fail to ensure they're in good working order. I'd guess that there are elements of all three in this explosion.

But if we accept your description of the inherent dangers with these rockets, there's no way in hell that these folks are ready for a commercial venture.

Either way, it's bad news for commercial flights.

[RightWhale]

Stop blowing opinions out of your rear orifice as fact.

Nice.

[af_vet_rr]

But if we accept your description of the inherent dangers with these rockets, there's no way in hell that these folks are ready for a commercial venture.

With that attitude, the airline industry would park all of their aircraft and never leave the ground again - a helluva lot of people die in airplane crashes every month - sometimes it's just two or four-seaters, othertimes entire airliners. The commercial fishing industry, the lumber industry, the oil industry, etc., would have to shut down as well.

There will always be accidents. That's the nature of the beast, and we should accept it and move on.

Hell, we had some tanks blow up in Dallas a few days ago that made national news - nobody said "they aren't ready for welding".

[r9etb]

With that attitude, the airline industry would park all of their aircraft and never leave the ground again - a helluva lot of people die in airplane crashes every month - sometimes it's just two or four-seaters, othertimes entire airliners. The commercial fishing industry, the lumber industry, the oil industry, etc., would have to shut down as well.

All very noble and manly ... but we're talking about the viability of a commercial venture, which boils down to one thing only: whether or not people will buy tickets to ride one of Rutan's creations.

For a commercial space venture to work, it's got to be perceived as generally safe. If there's all sorts of inherent danger -- say, that there's a 1% chance that any given flight will end in a cloud of smoke and schrapnel -- what makes you think that people will plunk down a stack of cash to actually risk their lives on what amounts to an amusement park ride?

Hell, we had some tanks blow up in Dallas a few days ago that made national news - nobody said "they aren't ready for welding".

Which simply proves the point: explosions of that sort are surpassingly rare. "Welding" is a safe, in that sense.

[saganite]

This report identifies all three as employees of SC.

MOJAVE, Calif. (AP) - The three workers killed in an explosion at a Mojave Desert airport during testing of a propellant system have been identified. Three others remain hospitalized in critical condition.

The Kern County coroner’s office identifies the victims as Eric Dean Blackwell of Randsburg, Charles Glenn May of Mojave and Todd Ivens of Tehachapi, all employees of Scaled Composites.

http://www.kesq.com/Global/story.asp?S=6849534&nav=9qrx

[Paladin2]

And that, boys and girls, is just ONE reason why rocket science should be done only by rocket scientists and not at home.

[cvm9008]

I wanted to comment. Todd Ivens uncle is an active member of ASSE in Portland, OR (where Todd has extensive family). He contacted CAL-OSHA regarding the accident. There was absolutely nothing new in what they were working with and how they were performing the tests, and had performed the procedure 100s of times prior to this accident. They are going through an in-depth investigation, but that is a while away. It is, as you said, the nature of the beast. We are heart sick with this accident, and can only think that Todd and his best bud, Eric, were doing what they loved, together.

[anymouse]

I'd bet none of these guys were rocket scientists. Rocket technicians or engineers, but not scientists.

Also this was a rocket engine injector flow test, not a scientific experiment.

Goddard continued to experiment with liquid propellant rockets, igniting them in a field on his Aunt Effie's farm, where their piercing screeches disturbed the neighbor's livestock. Eventually, on 16 March 1926, one of Goddard's devices lifted off to make the first successful flight of a liquid propellant rocket.

Good thing this guy didn't do any rocket engine testing at home. /sarc

[Paladin2]

It’s OK because he WAS a rocket scientist. (And home was actually a farm field).

[anymouse]

Actually Goddard was a physist. Last I checked there is no degree in “Rocket Science.” Aerospace Engineering, Astronotical Engineering or Mechanical Engineering, but not rocket science.

[Paladin2]

That’s what makes Rocket Science so tough.

[TheBridge]

God bless those killed at the Mojave site. Very sad news, indeed.

[anymouse]

FR Thread: Scaled Composites Family Support Fund