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To: expat_panama
Here's an article in Nature (Vol 448/5 July 220) which does a better job than the Guardian in describing the dispute...

and Here's a beautiful article by Shaviv himself clearly outlining the situation. Note that Shaviv, a proponent of solar forcing and an opponent of Kyoto, does not deny anthropogenic influence and thinks it will increase dramatically in the coming years.

I doubt that even this will change minds. I find a huge similarity between liberal positions on competition and conservative positions on the evironment. Both are motivated by fear. The former fear that they will be labeled losers and the later fear for their livelihood, and both fear for their most basic ideologies.

337 posted on 07/13/2007 4:44:42 PM PDT by liberallarry
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To: liberallarry
a huge similarity between liberal positions on competition and conservative positions on the evironment. Both are motivated by fear.

Maybe not fear so much as arrogance.  I've yet to see any big consumer shift from heating appliances to air-conditioning or warm clothes to light clothing.   Last year when I told a friend of mine about this, she ran right out to buy a Prius.  Not that she needed to save money on rising gas prices, but she wanted to make a "statement".  

Talk about convincing people --if anyone could show me any serious purchasing shift caused by increased temperatures, then that would go a long way to prove to me that there was any generally accepted belief that the world is warming.  If it were really happening in the real world and all the climate advocates really believed what they were saying, then it should show up in how people spent their own money on themselves. 

For decades I worked with with US government meteorology people and none of us who actually worked in the section ever saw anything that pointed to any clear long term temperature trend.    Apparently outside of politics neither has anyone else.

342 posted on 07/14/2007 8:26:41 AM PDT by expat_panama
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