Rise Of Man Theory 'Out By 400,000 Years'

Times Online ^ | 6-25-2007 | Dalya Alberge

[editor-surveyor]

"Visit Carlsbad Caverns and then explain yourself."

Before visiting the caverns, visit the basement of the Lincolin Memorial, then you will have a sound understanding of how much you are being defrauded by the propaganda presented at the caverns. The caverns happened in a short time, with much warmer, lime-rich water that is present now. The formation of Carlsbad cavern was a post-flood event, that happened quite quickly, just like the basement of the Lincolin Memorial.

[Coyoteman]

Unfortunately this is the common practice of evolutionists, who will even go as far as to ignore supress research and fabricate findings...

[cookcounty]

"The idea that mankind could exist with intelligence for a hundred thousand years without developing language, culture, and technology seems add odds with what we observe of man today."

Excellent point.

[beethovenfan]

I think I saw that guy downtown the other day.

[MichiganMan]

Where are all the cities?

Where is the archaeological evidence!?

I think that at the stage of development being suggested, there were no "cities," only a group of long term shelters, with associated hearths, storage pits and the like. IOW, you would have a population formally believed to be strictly hunting and gathering nomads, following herds and seasons "suddenly" (funny term for the span that would have been involved) setting down roots hundreds of thousands of years earlier than anyone else on the planet thought to.

If they died off, as many populations did throughout the stone ages, plagues, drought, predation etc, such innovative thinking would have died with them. Of course such a hypothesis must be scrutinized with appropriate skepticism, but its intriguing nonetheless.

[cookcounty]

"That assumes no bumps in the road -- besides intraspecies violence, there are impacts, eruptions, earthquakes, and intraspecies violence brought on by those.

And you are assuming a long period without earthquakes etc is necessary for lamguage and writing to arise (then again it might explain California's retrogression!!). Writing apparently arose pretty much simultaneously in isolated areas despite lots of violence and stress.

[Greg F]

Visit Carlsbad Caverns and then explain yourself.

I'm one of those Bible thumpers that doesn't find the age of the earth anywhere in the Bible. Attempts to use the Bible end up with a man with a calculator piecing together information . . . which isn't the word of God but is the word of a man with a calculator making assumptions based on the word of God.

[BipolarBob]

I'm one of those Bible thumpers that doesn't find the age of the earth anywhere in the Bible.

It is true one cannot discern the age of the earth from the Bible because of overlapping periods of individuals lives. But if one is to believe the Bibles genealogy, then the earth is less than 10,000 years old. Is this possible? Sure. Is it factual? Well, one has to have faith (like me) to believe it to be so. You may believe whatever makes you feel most comfortable.

[Greg F]

I also don’t think we know how long Adam was in the Garden of Eden.

[balch3]

Evolution and Communism
Another interesting facet of history is the connection between evolution and communism. With communism the struggle of “race” is replaced by the struggle of “class” as history is viewed as an evolutionary struggle.

Both Karl Marx and Friedrich Engels were evolutionists before they encountered Darwin’s “The Origin of Species” - (Dec 12, 1859) Engels wrote to Marx: “Darwin who I am now reading, is splendid” (Morris 1989, 83 quoting Zirkle). Like Darwin, “Marx thought he had discovered the law of development. He saw history in stages, as the Darwinists saw geological strata and successive forms of life... In keeping with the feelings of the age, both Marx and Darwin made struggle the means of development” (Morris 1989, 83 quoting Borzin). “There was truth in Engel’s eulogy on Marx: ‘Just as Darwin had discovered the law of evolution in organic nature so Marx discovered the law of evolution in human history’” (Morris 1989, 83 quoting Himmelfarb).

“It is commonplace that Marx felt his own work to be the exact parallel of Darwin’s. He even wished to dedicate a portion of Das Kapital to the author of The Origin of Species” (Morris 1989, 83 quoting Barzum). Indeed, Marx wished to dedicate parts of his famous book to Darwin but “Darwin ‘declined the honor’ because, he wrote to Marx, he did not know the work, he did not believe that direct attacks on religion advanced the cause of free thought, and finally because he did not want to upset ‘some members of my family’” (Morris 1989, 83 quoting Jorafsky).

Other Soviet Communist leaders are evolutionists as well. Lenin, Trostsky, and Stalin were all atheistic evolutionists. A soviet think tank founded in 1963 developed a one-semester course in “Scientific Atheism” which was introduced in 1964. Also, a case can be made that Darwinism was influential in propagating communism in China.

Interestingly, according to Morris, Stephen Jay Gould of Harvard University, the co-founder of the punctuated equilibrium theory of evolution is a Marxist in philosophy, along with other distinguished Harvard evolutionary scientists and university professors across the country. One has to ask - could a person espouse the Marxist view and tolerate creationism?

References:
Morris 1989, 82-92

http://emporium.turnpike.net/C/cs/hscom.htm

[BipolarBob]

I also don’t think we know how long Adam was in the Garden of Eden.

You only bet on a sure thing, don't you? No, there is nothing there to indicate what amount of time passed in the Garden of Eden. But I do believe there was one.

[SunkenCiv]

I'm not assuming any such thing.

Writing apparently requires some kind of settled life to arise, and it appears to arise pretty quickly when it does. Cuneiform was in use for a very long time, including for international communication (because of its adaptability), but it isn't in use today, and when rediscovered was a mystery. Developed (or so it is now thought) by the Sumerians, it was adapted for Akkadian/Assyrian; some Sumerian literature survived, while the language and people vanished.

Egyptian hieroglyphics were in use for a long time, but other forms (hieratic, demotic, cuneiform, alphabetic scripts from Semitic or Greek use) were developed or adapted for everyday and practical uses. Hieroglyphic symbols came and went, and a number survive in only one example.

Linear A appears to have been adapted as Linear B. The latter is Greek, the former isn't. Magdalenean cave art includes characters from three much later writing systems, which potentially pushes written language back 10 or 12 thousand years. But there are no known long surviving texts anywhere near that old.

[SunkenCiv]

Uh-oh. This has the potential of becoming a...

So far, the cr/evo struggle in the subthread has remained pretty quiet. But that could change in a single post.

[SunkenCiv]

Nice summation.

[Alamo-Girl]

Thanks for the ping!

[RobbyS]

Geological changes might have wiped out traces of earlier cultures. Just look at what two thousand years has done to Caesara Phillipi, present-day Banias in Israel. That’s from neglect, war, vandalism, and climatic wear-and tear. How much would remain of a Pompei-size city that was buried by volcanic ash 150,000 years ago? How much would remain of cities covered by the most recent ice-sheets? So I am open to a long pre-history of man.

[Coyoteman]

So far, the cr/evo struggle in the subthread has remained pretty quiet. But that could change in a single post.

Good point. I think I will go to bed. Night all!

[CHEE]

The Snickers Bar in his left hand and the .357 Magnum blowgun in his right hand had to be considered as an anomaly. Oh yes, they failed to tell us that his 30 foot long tail was covered with feathers and the next of the last foot was in his mouth. I believe!

[metmom]

The news divided scholarly opinion yesterday.

Gee, and I thought there was no dissent among evolutionists about the ToE.

So who gets blacklisted now? The 10,000 yearers, or the 400,000 yearers? Young and old human evos?

So should we now classify man as a living fossil? Wouldn't that throw a monkey wrench in their theory?

[nicollo]

This guy uses the word “harvest” a touch loosely, I’m guessing. Does he have any evidence that these “settlements” engaged in actually control of the food supply (and storage for later use), or, as Popocatapetl notes, merely taking advantage of natural abundance where it was found?

There’s the difference: using what’s found as against making it.