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To: Utah Girl

You and several other fellow Mormons have taken me to task about my Mormon-Mohammedan comparison. You Mormons are just playing coy, you know what I meant, but for those who may not:

The prophet Mohammed came along centuries after the fact - the “fact” meaning the completion of the Bible, Old and New Testaments - and caused the Hadith and Koran to be written. Writings superimposed upon the Bible, writings which in effect subverted the supreme authority of the Bible. Mohammed claimed the Bible is full of errors and he, as prophet of God, has the divine right to correct it. He has preeminence over the Bible.

An angel is alleged to be the source of Mohammed’s inspiration. Mohammed is raised to the position of “the prophet” of Islam by reason of being singled out for this visit from the angel and given his alleged “revelation.”

Now, lets use the same words above except for substituting a bit here and there.

The prophet Joseph Smith came along centuries after the fact - the “fact” meaning the completion of the Bible, Old and New Testaments - and caused the the book of Mormon, Doctrines and Covenants, Pearl of Great Price, etc., to be written. Writings superimposed upon the Bible, writings which in effect subverted the supreme authority of the Bible. Joseph Smith claimed the Bible is full of errors and he, as prophet of God, has the divine right to correct it. He has preeminence over the Bible.

An angel (Moroni) is alleged to be the source of Joseph Smith’s inspiration. Joseph Smith is raised to the position of “the prophet” of Mormonism by reason of being singled out for this visit from the angel and given his alleged “revelation.”

I think you should be able to catch my drift.

These are the points Mormonism has in common with Islam that I meant, not the things you describe. My comparison has to do with written authority. The written authority of the Bible vs the authority of Mormon literature (book of Mormon, etc.), and Mohammedan literature.


246 posted on 06/24/2007 10:49:59 AM PDT by sasportas
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To: sasportas; greyfoxx39; colorcountry; Elsie; Enosh; Colofornian; aMorePerfectUnion; RaceBannon; ...
Clear parallels, which lead some to suspect demonic involvement in the advent of these 'alternate' revelations first with Islam and the Koran, then Mormonism and the texts they hold sacred. Why else would Joe Smith try to rewrite the entire Bible so as to include false prophecies of himself, as if these were left out when the Old Testament was written for humankind or lost when the Torah was presented to humankind?

At fourteen and fifteen, Joe Smith was no more than a conman dupe being used to 'divine' the location of treasure on dupe-able farmers' lands in New York state. By the time he 'translates' the book of Mormon, he is a brilliant prevaricator given to bold assertions he claims are from God via Angels and he is able to lead away unsuspecting females whom he 'marries' (but of course, Mormonism Apologists would have us believe there was no sex with these duped females, some of whom were already married to other men and in some cases other Mormons, some of whom left their marriages and went west with smithism's entourage).

When he joins the Masonic Lodge, he 'discovers' temple rituals lost to humankind that he 'restores to temple worship'.

When he begins taking Hebrew language lessons, he 'discovers' thousands of words not written in the Hebrew text of the Torah and even goes so far as to divide Hebrew words in order to change the meaning of sentences--see the rewrite of Genesis in the Joseph Smith translation of the Bible.

And of course we have the absurdity of Smith claiming that God sent via seer stones translation of 'reformed Egyptian' in obscure, contrary meaning King James English with the book of Mormon 'translations'.

It is sad that so many good people are so thoroughly taken in by this conman, even to this day.

254 posted on 06/24/2007 11:20:58 AM PDT by MHGinTN (You've had life support. Promote life support for those in the womb.)
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To: sasportas; MHGinTN

There is nothing wrong with comparing Joseph Smith and Mohammed. In fact Mr. Smith did it too.

A quote from Joseph Smith,
“I will be to this generation a second Mohammed, whose motto in treating for peace was ‘the Alcoran [Koran] or the Sword.’ So shall it eventually be with us—‘Joseph Smith or the Sword!’ ”


276 posted on 06/24/2007 12:52:31 PM PDT by JRochelle (Vacant Lott needs to be evicted from the Senate.)
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To: sasportas
I don't play coy. You compare us to Islam and what inference should we make? Especially in today's world. Further down in my reply, I have quote from the Bible. "By their fruits shall ye know them." Are Mormons like Muslims? The Inevitability and Hazards of Comparison
For those describing Mormonism the most common and persistent comparison from 1830 to the present has been the comparison to Islam. As observers wrote about the new religion, Joseph Smith was repeatedly said to be like Muhammed.

Some few parallels are indeed obvious. Both men criticized the corruption and inadequacy of the religious world surrounding them. Both were, or claimed to be, prophets. Both brought forth new works of scripture. Both authorized polygamy under certain circumstances. Both had political goals. Both were willing to use military force under certain circumstances.. At least these are the comparisons that were put forth.

In 1842 John C. Bennet’s expos? proclaimed Joseph Smith to be a militaristic tyrant with his own seraglio. In 1861 Richard Burton, who knew much more about Islam than the others who wrote on the subject, also saw the parallels. The comparison was apparently hard to resist. In 1906 Jennie Fowler Willing published Mormonism: The Mohammedanism of the West, and in 1912 Bruce Kinney brought out a book entitled Mormonism: The Islam of America.

The message usually intended, as historian Arnold Green has demonstrated, was that both Muhammed and Joseph Smith were false prophets, rejecting true Christianity. Interestingly, for many years Roget’s Thesaurus listed the Koran and the Book of Mormon together under the term "pseudo-revelation." In the guise of a comparison, both leaders could be defamed as sensual and brutal, the two religions as gross and primitive. Thus a comparison that may seem innocuous in fact carried a powerful negative message.

Further down in the article
Twenty-five years later a different observation was made by Richard W. Young (Brigham Young’s nephew): "Although Mohammedanism is full of vital errors, still it is infinitely more perfect than the idolatry it supplanted. May it not be, among the Arabs and the Tartars of the desert, the Moors of the Mediterranean, the Turks of the Bosphorous, and the Hindoos of India, over whom it now exercises its potent sway–the forerunner of true Christianity?" For Richard Young, true Christianity meant the restored gospel in its fullness. He was suggesting that in several ways Islam might prepare the soil for the missionary message. He might be less sanguine about present-day militant, expansionist Islam. In 1882, President John Taylor insisted on a crucial difference between Mormonism and Islam. God has assigned us the responsibility to preach the gospel to all the world, he said. "But we are not placed here to control people; we are not placed here to use any improper influence over the minds or consciences of men. It is not for us to attempt to do what Mahomet did--to say that there was but one God, and Mahomet was his prophet, and by force compel all others to acknowledge it. To attempt to do that would be to attempt to interfere with the agency of man; and anything of that kind is altogether foreign to the character and spirit of our mission. We preach the Gospel to the people, and it is for them to receive or reject as they may choose."
And from the New Testament, Matthew 7:
16 Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles?

17 Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit.

18 A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit.

19 Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.

20 Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.

From John 16:
1 I am the true vine, and my Father is the husbandman.

2 Every branch in me that beareth not fruit he taketh away: and every branch that beareth fruit, he purgeth it, that it may bring forth more fruit.

16 Ye have not chosen me, but I have chosen you, and ordained you, that ye should go and bring forth fruit, and that your fruit should remain: that whatsoever ye shall ask of the Father in my name, he may give it you.

And from Mark 4
7 And some fell among thorns, and the thorns grew up, and choked it, and it yielded no fruit. 8 And other fell on good ground, and did yield fruit that sprang up and increased; and brought forth, some thirty, and some sixty, and some an hundred.

20 And these are they which are sown on good ground; such as hear the word, and receive it, and bring forth fruit, some thirtyfold, some sixty, and some an hundred.

28 For the earth bringeth forth fruit of herself; first the blade, then the ear, after that the full corn in the ear.

29 But when the fruit is brought forth, immediately he putteth in the sickle, because the harvest is come.


612 posted on 06/26/2007 9:53:17 PM PDT by Utah Girl
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