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To: LeGrande
The big bang is based on the fact that the entire universe is expanding and accelerating too.

That expansion and acceleration are based solely on the idea that redshift always represents recessional velocity. Halton Arp's observations call that premise into question. Our entire view of the universe depends on the observed redshift being tied to the Doppler effect. All of the distances, energy levels, and accelerations are based on this notion. It is a huge deal to have the very lynch pin of our cosmological understanding come into question. Here are a few interesting links on the subject.

Having faith in Edwin Hubble

The Picture that Wont Go Away

Thirty Years Later

Einstein had added a constant to his equations to create a steady state universe. When it was discovered that the universe was expanding he called the constant his greatest blunder.

Is it really expanding? It may be expanding but not in the way the Big Bang theory describes. The implications of Arps observations is that quasars are ejected from galaxies and as they age their redshift decreases in quantized steps. At each discrete step the quasars mass increases as it's redshift decreases until they eventually become galaxies capable of ejecting new quasars. I know this sounds radical and they are not my ideas but I find this very interesting. The observed phenomenon that the redshift of quasars and galaxies change in discreet quantized steps coupled with the statistical placement of quasars next to active galaxies and that the quasars seem to be aligned along either side of the spin axis of the galaxy led to these ideas. Please remember that these ideas are attempts to explain observation. The main stream cosmologists are mostly mathematicians and seem to show little interest in observations, especially observations that bring into question their elegant formulations.

Redshift Rosetta Stone

Halton Arps Website

An Open Letter to the Scientific Community

It is interesting that on this point Religion and Science seemed to agree. If science disproves the Big Bang how does Religion falsify it?

I'm not sure that I agree with the idea that Religion and Science are in agreement on this. At least two Popes have made statements in support for the Big Bang because the theory supports the idea of creation Ex-Nihilo. Mormons do not support that idea but rather believe that the Universe is eternal with no beginning or end. Perhaps that gives me a bias in favor of the Big Bang bashers. I do try to always keep an open mind. As I stated before, truth is truth regardless of where you find it.

When good scientific evidence is presented it is generally amazing how fast the scientific community embraces the new evidence (global warming and junk science excepted). If the Hubble would have provided clear support for Halton Arps work I am sure that astronomists would have supported it. It didn't.

Historically, the scientific community is very slow to accept revolutionary ideas. I would caution you to not be to quick to shuffle this into the junk science bin. I've been looking into it for over a year and have found no substantive refutation by the main streamers. Contrary to your assertion the Hubble found the same things Arp did. When NASA published a photo of one of Arps peculiar galaxy's they used a low resolution picture that didn't show the connection between the galaxy and the quasar. The dissidents got a hold of a high resolution copy of the same photo and published it which clearly showed the bridge. If you'd like a link to that story let me know and I'll dig it up.

I believe that the Big Bang is a house of cards that is being held up by the old guard scientists. These guys control where the research money goes and anyone doing research questioning the status quo is left out in the cold. History repeats itself. This same situation has occurred over and over again in the world of science. A revolution is afoot but it is difficult to say how long it will be before the world is rocked with the shocking news that the Big Bang was a bust.

2,299 posted on 07/09/2007 9:52:42 AM PDT by sandude
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Secret Flying Inman decoder ring placemarker
2,300 posted on 07/09/2007 11:13:24 AM PDT by MHGinTN (You've had life support. Promote life support for those in the womb.)
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To: sandude
Let me try and summarize Halton Arps hypothesis, galaxies eject very fast massless quasars which gain in mass, become galaxies and eject massless quasars?

If that hypothesis is correct then we pretty much have to throw out all of our physics to date. Stuff that we have tested and use every day.

On the other hand ^_^ "If you use 3C273 as an example, a German microwave radio telescope shows that a colliding object is moving through another larger galaxy. Collisions create high energy radiations that explains why the quasars are radiating high energy wavelengths that I consider to account for their higher redshifths. See page 197 in the book Universe, edited by Byron Preiss. Published by Bantam Books."

That explanation accounts for the the higher redshifts and lets us keep all the physics we have grown to accept. It is also an explanation that adequately accounts for Halton Arps 3 primary observations that he uses to support his hypothesis.

I believe that the Big Bang is a house of cards that is being held up by the old guard scientists. These guys control where the research money goes and anyone doing research questioning the status quo is left out in the cold. History repeats itself. This same situation has occurred over and over again in the world of science. A revolution is afoot but it is difficult to say how long it will be before the world is rocked with the shocking news that the Big Bang was a bust.

You don't have to go searching for weird anomalies. We know that Quantum Mechanics and Relativity are incompatible. Both have rock solid theories and experimental evidence to back them up, and yet it is as if they are operating in different universes. That is where the real research is occurring today and when some Genius pops up and explains it all we will all go, "Of Course, it was obvious!"

2,305 posted on 07/09/2007 2:14:58 PM PDT by LeGrande (Muslims, Jews and Christians all believe in the same God of Abraham.)
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