We'd have more power in EU if Germans hadn't 'reduced our population' in WWII, says Polish PM

Evening Standard ^ | June 21, 2007

[Sonny M]

Or were they just "not-so-special" people?

Its why I said, I din't want to see it going on for infinity, and wasn't going that far, the question is what is the limitations going to be?

[Sonny M]

How does Germany BENEFIT from WW2? Do you think more innocents should have died? The complete destruction of the big cities wasn´t enough? It´s not that no Germans died during WW2.

As the saying goes, "just cuz you lose some of your boys stealing diamonds, doesn't mean your off the hook, or get to keep the diamonds"

[CarrotAndStick]

The purple area corresponds to the assumed Urheimat (Samara culture, Sredny Stog culture). The red area corresponds to the area which may have been settled by Indo-European-speaking peoples up to ca. 2500 BC; the orange area to 1000 BC.

http://www.tcnj.edu/~fickas3/index.htm

[CarrotAndStick]

The question is what is the limitations going to be?

To which, an answer can never be found.

[shekkian]

Ya gotta love Poland. They tell it like it is.

[hunter112]

This is about reparations. It is about making people who had nothing to do with WWII pay for the crimes of the generation that caused it.

Y'know, I was buying Poland's argument, until I saw yours. You're exactly right. The time to settle up is right after the war, and events that occur some sixty years later should have had the reparations figured into them.

Poland's present day economic situation comes from its time spent under communism, perhaps there should be reparations paid by Russia to the former Warsaw Pact nations. Now that's within recent history.

[Theophilus]

As a person of German descent, I encourage Poles to get down to the business of making more Poles as quickly as possible. I hear Polish women are lovely and I’m sure that Polish men desire no help from either the Germans or Russians in this matter.

[monday]

Germany and France have to worst run governments in the EU. Everyone in the EU would be better off if they had less power than say Lichtenstin or Monaco, not more power.

[monday]

“If the Poles wa-wa enough about this, they stand a pretty good chance of getting the Germans to start feeling all guilty. Just a hop, skip and a jump to reparations from that point.”

On the other hand, anyone who thinks Germany and France should have more votes than any other country in the EU just because they are larger needs to have their head examined. Germany and France are the worst run socialist cess pools in the EU.

[wolf78]

On the other hand, anyone who thinks Germany and France should have more votes than any other country in the EU just because they are larger needs to have their head examined. Germany and France are the worst run socialist cess pools in the EU.

Compared to the Socialist People's Republic of Poland? *LOL



Source: Heritage.org

[Lukasz]

We are moving slowly ahead. Kaczynski’s are great for sure but they are not as bad as some people here claim.

Poland: Sticking with fiscal conservatism

Government passes Kluska Packet The government Tuesday passed the so-called Kluska packet of liberal business laws. The new legislation will come in force next autumn.

[curiosity]

And there would also be another 25 million Germans living in Pomerania and Silesia. Should these also be counted?

Nearly all ethnic Germans who found themselves living on the Polish side of the post-war border moved back to Germany. Hence Germany's population did not decline nearly as much as Poland's as a result of the war, which a Germany started, I might add.

I mean, is it possible to be any more stupid than the Kaczynski twins?

Apparently yes, judging by your comments.

[curiosity]

The time to settle up is right after the war, and events that occur some sixty years later should have had the reparations figured into them.

The Poles would have loved to have settled up after the war. Unfortunately, the Soviet Union wouldn't let them.

[curiosity]

Why are you turning this into a discussion about land? That's not Kaczynski's, or anyone else's point.

This is an issue about how much extra power is given to countries with larger populations. This is the same argument the founding fathers had about deciding the composition of the legislative branch. There are a whole host of reasons why apportioning power strictly on the basis of population is a bad idea (which is why we have a Senate). Kaczynski has simply used a dramatic means of illustrating this point.

Where did Kaczynski ask for reparations? He didn't, so stop acting like he did.

[tetuhe1898]

LOL

[HaveHadEnough]

Where did Kaczynski ask for reparations? He didn't, so stop acting like he did.

He is asking for reparations. You can't get much plainer than this:

"We are only demanding one thing - that we get back what was taken from us," said Jaroslaw Kaczynski at the opening of the EU summit in Brussels, chaired by German chancellor Angela Merkel.

He's not saying that there is a better way to divide power. He wants his pound of flesh, and Germany is a more convenient target than the Soviet Union.

[wolf78]

Why are you turning this into a discussion about land? That's not Kaczynski's, or anyone else's point.

I never did that. I just mockingly presented a counterargument as stupid as that of the Polish marxists-in-chief. If you had quoted my complete posting the irony would have been hard to overlook. The point is: Historical revisionism never works. Sure: Without WWII Poland's demographic would look different. Without Nazi idiocy Germany would also have been the first country to possess nuclear weapons (Oppenheimer would probably have stayed in Oppenheim). Who knows what Europe would look like today as a result of that??

There are a whole host of reasons why apportioning power strictly on the basis of population is a bad idea (which is why we have a Senate).

Actually, the compromise proposal advocated by the German side includes exactly that: A double majority of countries and population (and not population alone! Does nobody actually check facts?). The Polish demand (square root) does away with exactly that principle.

Kaczynski has simply used a dramatic means of illustrating this point.

As I explained to you: They have no point at all. It's just nationalistic posturing.

Where did Kaczynski ask for reparations? He didn't, so stop acting like he did.

I never did that. I just reserve my right to call bullsh*t when something smells like bullsh*t.

[tetuhe1898]

Hence Germany's population did not decline nearly as much as Poland's as a result of the war, which a Germany started, I might add.

Actually Germany lost even more people as a result of the war than Poland did. Of cause, speaking in generalized terms Germany started the war and Poland was a victim, but the whole what-a-big-country-we-would-be-if-you-did-not-attack-us concept is fallacious and can lead only to a dead end. Past is past, and it's not about to change.

[Konrad_PL]

So help us God!
But then again, shouldn't we finally decide... are we going to integrate with the rest of Europe in the spirit of EU or just leave it altogether? I mean.. true, Germans did start the war, Soviets also had their share of genocides on their hands, and this and that... but shouldn't we move on and as I say "at least try to be civil to each other?"

A little more goodwill and politness on all parts would be in order IMO.

As for the reparations, if it would be up to me I'd say to our German friends, bring some landjagers (my all time favorites) and spaten bier and we'll call it even... I'll bring some vodka to the table and we can discuss politics then... anybody up for it?