Posted on 06/20/2007 3:54:57 PM PDT by blam
That is a beautiful cup! Can you explain the symbolism of the decorations?
From the Cathedral of Valencia.
Or;
The Jerusalem Chalice
The earliest record of a chalice from the Last Supper is the account of Arculf a 7th-century Anglo-Saxon pilgrim who described it in De locis sanctis as being located in a reliquary in a chapel near Jerusalem, between the basilica of Golgotha and the Martyrium. He described it as a two-handled silver chalice with the measure of a Gaulish pint. Arculf kissed his hand and reached through an opening of the perforated lid of the reliquary to touch the chalice. He said that the people of the city flocked to it with great veneration. (Arculf also saw the Holy Lance in the porch of the basilica of Constantine.) This is the only mention of the Holy Chalice being situated in the Holy Land.
Or;
The Genoa Chalice
Of two vessels that survive today, one is at Genoa, in the cathedral. The hexagonal vessel is known as the sacro catino, the holy basin. Traditionally said to be carved from emerald, it is in fact a green Egyptian glass dish, about eighteen inches (37 cm) across. It was sent to Paris after Napoleons conquest of Italy, and was returned broken, which identified the emerald as glass. Its origin is uncertain; according to William of Tyre, writing in about 1170, it was found in the mosque at Caesarea in 1101: "a vase of brilliant green shaped like a bowl." The Genoese, believing that it was of emerald, accepted it in lieu of a large sum of money. An alternative story in a Spanish chronicle says that it was found when Alfonso VII of Castile captured Almería from the Moors in 1147 with Genoese help, un vaso de piedra esmeralda que era tamanno como una escudiella, "a vase carved from emerald which was like a dish". The Genoese said that this was the only thing they wanted from the sack of Almería. The identification of the sacro catino with the Holy Chalice is not made until later, however, by Jacobus de Voragine in his chronicle of Genoa, written at the close of the 13th century.
Unlike many Kiwis, I admire GWB and the job he has done as President. I applaud the selfless sacrifice made by the American Armed Forces in the Middle East, and I hope and pray that they can come home safely to you, one day soon, Mission Accomplished.
It is my understanding that the Kiwis have participated in the Middle East as well. Is that not true? Also, doesnt New Zealand have its own SAS? Regardless, thanks for your kind words about my Country and GWB..
The link is from Ebay.
I don't remember where I read it, nor do I speak French, so I could not confirm it, But the jist of the passage I had read stated that there is a small difference between grail ("graal") and "gra' al" (or something like that)in the French language... one meaning cup or chalice, while the other means (roughly) burial cloth.
Considering the fact that the Shroud of Turin was almost certainly brought to France by the Crusaders, and arose at about the time of the beginning of the earliest grail-like stories involving knights and etc, it is interesting to propose that the grail stories were generated from a misspelling or mistranslation of the rumored (at the time) burial cloth of Christ, as the tale of it's recovery reached mythic proportions.
Mind you, I do not write to dispute the Cup of Christ, but to suppose the "Grail" to be a different thing.
I do not suggest that the grail/burial cloth thing is true- As I said, it was a thing briefly read a long time ago, so if anyone can speak with authority on the subject, I would be happy to be corrected...
-Bruce
> It is my understanding that the Kiwis have participated in the Middle East as well. Is that not true?
It’s true: we have troops in Afghanistan and Iraq, and several other places like East Timor and the Solomon Islands. They are also involved in clearing agricultural land of mines and unexploded cluster-bombs in southern Lebanon.
> Also, doesnt New Zealand have its own SAS?
We do: the NZ SAS was New Zealand’s initial contribution to the War on Terror — they were deployed to Afghanistan to track down terrorists and perform long-range reconnaisance along with elite troops from other nations. There aren’t very many of them — they’re elite — but they are very good.
> Regardless, thanks for your kind words about my Country and GWB..
It’s a pleasure!
To find the Holy Grail all that one needs to do is to attend any Catholic Mass. It’s not difficult at all.
-Theo
It’s a tourist version of Old Jerusalem.
I think it means “Dentist’s kid from Jersey buy me so your parents won’t think you spent your entire stay in your homeland chasing women.”
:-)
(The cup in the picture is just a link from ebay -— search for “seder cup” or the like.)
Attention New Age nutjobs. I think it’s buried under the kaaba in Mecca. Now go get it!
Easily obtained elsewhere.
Theologically, the idea is that Jesus replaced the Temple worship by being the ultimate Passover lamb, replacing the Levitical structure (and necessary animal sacrifice rituals for purity and forgiveness) enacted with Mt. Sinia and thus giving the every day Joe (Jew and non-Jew) direct access to God to repent and/or pray w/out the necessity of further sacrifice.
Of course, all this is lost on people who: (1) arent Jewish or (2) dont know squat about Temple practices.
This is why Jewish converts to Catholicism "get" the Eucharist better than most Protestant converts initially do.
The term "remembrance," as in "do this in remembrance of me," must be understood within the Passover framework. Jews believe that in the Passover celebration, the Exodus event is actually made present, not simply remembered.
When Catholics celebrate the Eucharist, we believe that Jesus' sacrifice on Calvary is mysteriously made present to us; it is not simply remembered; nor is it regarded as a different sacrifice.
And that's just as He would have wanted it.
How do you know?
The bible records the fact that God has attached miracles to relics of the saints, and even objects that saints touched.
Acts 19:11-12God did extraordinary miracles through Paul, so that even handkerchiefs and aprons that had touched him were taken to the sick, and their illnesses were cured and the evil spirits left them.
Christian pilgrims continue to visit this church and the others when they make pilgrimage to Rome.
Oh please! You completely misunderstand what the point is in the verse. IT IS that the anointing on Paul was so great, that even objects he touched carried it. IT IS NOT supposed to mean that those objects be set up as some type of idols, something that is roundly condemned all throughout scripture.
So you build a huge edifice on one verse in which you don't understanding the meaning of. Typical.
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