Posted on 06/11/2007 2:09:09 PM PDT by Alter Kaker
My sources for the date of the global flood:
2252 BC -- layevangelism.com
2304 BC -- Answers in Genesis (+/- 11 years).
2350 BC -- Morris, H. Biblical Creationism. Grand Rapids, MI: Baker Books, 1993.
2370 BC -- TalkOrigins.com
2500 BC -- http://www.nwcreation.net/biblechrono.html
2522 BC -- Dr. Gerhard Hasel
2978-3128 BC -- http://www.asa3.org/archive/ASA/199605/0162.html
3300 BC -- http://www.biblediscoveries.com/flood1.html
3537 BC -- Setterfield (1999)
There is mucho evidence such as the “rock layers”: Fossils have everything to do with a world-wide flood (and I believe it was more along the lines of around 6000years ago).
The dating of fossil-bearing rock layers spans hundred of millions of years. This precludes a single event. Also, none of the dates are anyhere near 4350 (or 6000) years ago.
once again fossils are the fossils of animals drown and rapidly burried under layers of mud, just as when you put mud in cup it stratifies, so did these layers.
The fossils show a clear progression from young to old, with some dying out and new species taking their place. This spans hundreds of millions of years. The fact that many have the same mode of burial (mud) is incidental. Many also were buried beneath volcanic ash.
all the cultures you talk about are decendents of 1 man’s family, that’s the continuity. Nothing says that todays genetic variation of the middle eastern cultures would be the exact same as say their variant brothers in Europe, Asia, Aust or the Americas.
You really need to study this a bit. The genetic diversity could not have come from eight individuals 4350 years ago. On the other hand, there is clear evidence of the migrations of mankind spanning over 150,000 years. See the Journey of Mankind. Heck, my own research has produced mtDNA older than 4350 years--and there was continuity in that mtDNA type all the way to living individuals. And the haplogroup did not match any of the Near Eastern haplogroups.
Didn’t they do a study a couple years ago that found that modern humans midocondrial DNA (that from the mother) all seems to point to a “common ancestor”- aka “Midocrondrial Eve”- Really Noah’s wife.
There was such a study. But to understand its meaning, you need to understand how mtDNA is transmitted from generation to generation. It is passed from a mother to her children, but male children do not pass it on--only daughters pass their mtDNA on. Thus, the mtDNA of any mother who has only male children is lost to future generations. In tracing back to the “Mitocrondrial Eve” that is what you get--not the "first woman" but the one whose mtDNA survived the process the longest. There easily could have been hundreds or thousands of other, and older, mtDNA lineages which did not survive.
Further, the dating does no good for your argument. Rather than 4350 years ago, the “Mitocrondrial Eve” dates to about 140,000 years ago. Interestingly, and for similar reasons of descent, the “Y-chromosomal Adam” dates to only about 60,000 years ago. (By the way, I think these dates will be refined as more information comes in. Check back in about ten years and see what the information suggests then.)
If you choose to study man's history you will find that it is fascinating! We still have much to learn, but it goes way beyond 6000 years.
Good to see you admit that belief in science is really that; a belief. That does put it, after all, in the realm of religion.
What is real science?
Independents are just Democrats who use their ‘neutral’ or ‘undecided’ position to try to get conservatives to compromise on their positions.
Which, I'm sure, explains how and why this country was so great when so many of its citizens were much more religious and believed those mindless, superstitions taught in the Bible than now.
Of course, America is in decline now, but I can't help but wonder why, if science and education and belief in the ToE is supposed to be so enlightening and leading to the betterment of the country and mankind, it seems that the more *educated* we are, the worse this country is becoming. The very thing you think should be preventing the downward spiral of Western civilization, isn't working. Why is that?
The only reliable conclusion is the c.20% who thought humans developed over millions of years after being created less than 10,000 years ago were really, really confised.
Then why do Humans and great apes share the same defective gene that causes us to be unable to produce our own vitamin C?
And the brains man has to make those things came from where? Oh, yeah. They evolved from a puddle of slime.
FR has been overrun by Galloping Neanderthals, and you are to be commended in your efforts in dealing with them. Must be more one room school houses around here than I thought.
The answer is simple. Its a matter of national will, not religion.
Various things can focus the national will: effective propaganda, a disaster (e.g., Pearl Harbor or 911), a dictator, or a charismatic leader (e.g., Nehemiah Scudder). A unified and regimenting religion is one of those factors.
Other things can unfocus the national will: multiculturalism, lassitude and comfort, or lack of external challenge.
I think you are wrong in selecting just religion as the cause. It goes much deeper than that.
(It may be nice when everyone marches to the beat of a different drummer, but its really hard to hold a parade! -- not sure where I saw that; I can't find a reference.)
Yeah there was. The Creationists won it 60-40. Until it was discovered that jusr 2 Creationist Freepers had voted something like 1500 times between them.
Taking those votes out reversed the result to 45-55 the other way.
Wine
Perhaps usefulness. Adam was created as a full grown man; he had the appearance of age. It wasn't for the purpose of deceit but practicality.
On the day Adam was created, a believer would say he was not even one day old. A *scientist* would say that he was say... 30 (for example) years old. Who would be mocked and ridiculed for believing divine revelation over cold, hard scientific fact?
Who would be right?
14% point to a supposed lack of scientific evidence as their reason for rejecting evolution. Almost all of the rest point to religious motivations. Yes, this is all about the science all right!
“Of course, America is in decline now, but I can’t help but wonder why, if science and education and belief in the ToE is supposed to be so enlightening and leading to the betterment of the country and mankind, it seems that the more *educated* we are, the worse this country is becoming. The very thing you think should be preventing the downward spiral of Western civilization, isn’t working. Why is that?”
Because our society ignores the rules of evolution, and actively works to keep people alive who would normally die with little impact on our popultion.
Therein is exposed a problem of living in a great country. Part of descent with modification, an important part, was that the individuals best suited to an environment, best able to elude predators, were most clever, or who just had the most desireable characteristics to potential mates, were the ones who survived. Because they could live longer, or attract mates, they could have more children. Those children would have their traits, and in turn pass those traits on to their own children.
Those that couldn’t make it, who didn’t have the right traits or skill, or were just too lazy to do anything, died early or didn’t have the same mating opportunities. They had much less of an impact on the population than others.
Ah, but what about life in America over the last 50 years or so? To paint humans in cruel, impersonal strokes - we are actually enabling the “least fit” to survive. What is welfare, or free clinics, or anything of that nature except for to keep people alive and well who, on their own, would die? And these are the people, in turn, having the most children, often indiscriminately and with multiple partners. Some of these people actively seek out the WORST possible partner to have sex with! In other words - our gene pool is composed increasingly of, to be judgemental, random and undesireable traits...
Let’s be honest, but very general... If two people you consider to be idiots get married, and have a baby, what is their baby going to be like? You already know the answer, whether you choose to believe in a chain of inherited characteristics or not. That’s not evolution, but it shows how traits influence descent, and if their family tree consisted of nothing but idiots marrying idiots and their children doing the same, would there be more or less idiots in the world in a hundred years? I think you know the answer to that one too!
It’s just an example, but this “survival of the least fit” is something that socialism actually enables.
Who would be right?
If you are doing science, you would first have to demonstrate that there was indeed an "Adam."
As far as has been documented to date, the "Adam" concept is a religious belief without scientific evidence to support it. That does not constitute a persuasive scientific argument upon which to build.
Survival of the fittest is not an accurate assessment of evolution; survival of those lineages which produce the most successful progeny would be closer. And we don't know in advance which lineages those are! Your lineage adapts to global warming, mine adapts to global cooling! Roll the dice. Which scenario comes up first?
That's it. Nothing in the theory of evolution suggests that the smartest reproduce more successfully, or the strongest either.
Those lineages you disparage:
these are the people, in turn, having the most children, often indiscriminately and with multiple partners. Some of these people actively seek out the WORST possible partner to have sex with! In other words - our gene pool is composed increasingly of, to be judgemental, random and undesireable traits...Science doesn't know that those lineages, composed of "random and undesirable traits" are the losers in the next roll of the dice. And neither do you.
Evolution is religion, not science, and government funding of it is a violation of the first ammendment.
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.