If amnesty can be defined by your anti Bush side as an undeported illegal, then is it not amnesty if they can stay here anyway? I do not think that this is a good bill, but I disagree that one is not needed. Do you think that the govt can deport 12 million illegals, or whatever number is currently in play, without huge intervention from every corner of the legal establishment? You cannot pick and choose who will have to go unless they all are rounded up simultaneously and a ‘a trail of tears’ ensues. President Bush is not a king or a dictator, he works thru our elected representatives, tho that is what it would take to satisfy his no compromise haters. Nothing will be enforced unless there is a consensus, codified by legislation, about what the immigration rules will be.
“If amnesty can be defined by your anti Bush side as an undeported illegal, then is it not amnesty if they can stay here anyway?”
Objection: I am *not* anti-Bush. I voted for him twice, volunteered and worked polls and put up signs. I even marched around the Governors mansion in support of him becoming President.
You are foolish to make this immigration debate as a pro/con on Bush. Bush has decided to delude himself on this issue, but that doesnt make opponents of this *KENNEDY-WRITTEN SENATE BILL* somehow Bush apostates. we are being far more consistent in our Republican conservative law-and-order limited-govt stop-a-huge-hit-on-taxpayers and defend-American-sovereignty that is under attack by this bill.
Now ....
“If amnesty can be defined by your anti Bush side as an undeported illegal, then is it not amnesty if they can stay here anyway?”
1) The penalty for being in this country illegally is deportation, so any disposition of an illegal alien in custody other than deportation is a form of amnesty.
2) If someone is here illegally, they are here illegally, period. It is not amnesty until their legal status changes.
2) If you know of cases where we have illegal aliens in our custody, then we dont deport them, yes, that is amnesty. Thus:
- when we have local law enforcement not deport aliens caught and jailed for petty crimes
- when we do ‘catch and release’ (John Lee Malvo for example)
Will this bill stop these amnesties? NO! It will make them worse! Did you notice the Coleman amendment, that was voted down? All it asked was for local law enforcement to inform the federal govt of immigration status of people in their custody. Yet it was voted down.
Can President Bush stop these amnesties without any change in law? YES! The existence of ‘sanctuary cities’ is already against Federal law! All Bush needs to do is threaten to cut off law enforcement funds in exchange for compliance of this law. All Bush needs to do is end catch and release fully. All he needs to do is help the Border patrol, pardon the BP agents who are serving 12 years for attempting to stop a drug smuggler (an outrageous injustice even beyond the Libby case), all he needs to do is expedite the border fence, tell ICE to quit pampering the corrupt employers of illegal aliens, and get serious.
“Do you think that the govt can deport 12 million illegals, or whatever number is currently in play, without huge intervention from every corner of the legal establishment?”
Do you think every murder case in America can be solved?
No? Do you then throw up your hands and give amnesty to all murderers? How many do *you* think the Govt is able to deport in one year? have you examined the Eisenhower precedent? how many do you *want* deported?
Do you think Government *cant* deport more illegal aliens, or Government *wont* deport more illegal aliens?
“You cannot pick and choose who will have to go “
Why not? Why cant you enforce the law to the extent possible with the ICE resources you have, while also selaing hte border, and let the attrition do its work, as we deport at least the 600,000 with existing deportation court orders and the 100,000+ criminal aliens, and the 1 million+ who engaged in ID fraud.
Have you considered a middle ground solution:
#1) Build the border fence, which will cut border crossings 95%.
#2) Enforce the law with vigor in the workplace and in jails, wherein we deport every criminal alien.
#3) before you do anything else, wait 12 months. The number of illegal aliens will certainly be smaller and you can solve the full problem without amnesty
You still need: End anchor babies; Change from chain migration to employer based immigration; give local law enforcement more help in enforcing laws; tamper-proof verification; a rule that no more than 5% of immigrants should come from any one country. all those can wait. What matters is the border fence and an end to massive illegal immigration from unchecked border crossings.
“President Bush is not a king or a dictator, he works thru our elected representatives”
I told our FReeper friends that 2 years ago when they were claiming Bush wasnt doing enough... Then last year, in a PR bid to boost the chances of the immigration bill, he sent 5,000 National Guard troops to the Mexican border. IF HE CAN DO THAT, HE CAN DO WHAT HE NEEDS TO DO TO STOP ILLEGAL IMMIGRATION!
3 out of the 6 terrorists in the Fort Dix plot were illegal immigrants. You think if the Feds found a terror group, they’d sit on their hands? Of course not. It’s a matter of WILLPOWER. If Bush has the will to enforce laws on the books today, he could drastically reduce illegal immigration.
“Nothing will be enforced unless there is a consensus, codified by legislation, about what the immigration rules will be.”
There are ALREADY LAWS ON THE BOOKS! That is why we call them ‘illegal immigrants’ because they are breaking those laws. Bush has it in his power to much more vigorously enforce the laws that exist.