Posted on 05/29/2007 6:16:58 PM PDT by Clintonfatigued
Rudy Giuliani, whose positions on abortion and homosexuality mark him as the most socially liberal Republican presidential candidate in more than a generation, is so far winning the contest for the support of social conservatives, according to a new analysis of recent polls.
Widespread perceptions that Giuliani is the most electable Republican in this year's field are driving his support among social conservatives, according to the analysis by the Pew Forum on Religion & Public Life.
If the trend holds, this apparent willingness to support a candidate who fails what were once regarded as litmus-test issues would mark a landmark shift in the political behavior of a constituency that has been a pillar of the modern GOP. Already the shift is spurring sharp debate among prominent Christian conservative leaders, some of whom warn that Giuliani backers are abandoning core principles.
(Excerpt) Read more at politico.com ...
This is really simple: The RNC is hell-bent on self destruction.
They seem to be doing everything they possibly can to alienate their base supporters, and their traditional role in U.S. politics.
We'll see who gets the nomination for POTUS. If they nominate a RINO, they're done.
Hhmmm...Do we wonder why that is, exactly?
Could it be because the top three RINOS are getting all the action in the media?
I think you know who I support; (a conservative), but unless and until the Rudy McRomney supporters drop the RINOS, we are not going to see widespread support for any conservative.
Threads like this one will continure to be posted, and the MSM will continue to sing praises for the "moderate" (read liberal) Republicans, and eventually, the RNC will nominate a RINO and then lose the general election.
All of this talk, posturing, time, money, and effort will have gone for naught.
If you don't think the Republican Party has been moving 'to the left' fast enough,,,,
and you want to accelerate that movement 'to the left' so we can have BOTH parties PERMANENTLY to the left of center,,,
JulieAnnie is JUST THE MAN FOR THE JOB!!!
Oh I do LOVE our Country, Troops, GOd, America, Apple Pie, Etc, the Founders, the COnstitution: I just DON’T Care for your LOVE AMERICA= LOVE RUDY Scpiel!!
And that's nonsense in and of itself when it comes to the likes of Rudy.
Rudy doesn't offer half a loaf. He offers crumbs. And also breaks the bread pan, flushes the flour and yeast down the toilet, and blows up the oven so there will be no loaf at all next time.
“”WELL, I’M AS PRO-LIFE AS ANYBODY ON EARTH” and then immediately added BUT before explaining that they didn’t really mind that Rudy wanted to use their taxes to kill babies since, after all, he could beat Hillary. People like that are beneath contempt; they are Republicans because the Democrats won’t have them.”
That’s exactly right... And some of them are “Republicans” because they were raised by a family or in an area that had a social stigma against Democrats... So they refuse to call themselves Democrats under any circumstances, though they don’t have a really good idea why. They think if they act like Democrats, but call themselves Republicans, everything is cool.
“So when Hillary appoints Ruth Bader Ginberg’s three socialist sisters during the next 8 years, how does that help your cause?”
Do you know that Giuliani named Ginsberg as an example of a good supreme court justice? Potentially, selections could be even worse, because Republicans would have to back him and Democrats wouldn’t even try to fight him.
“Most of us, even though we may personally feel a lot of respect for Rudy for his 9/11 part, can’t vote for him. And I do mean can’t.”
That is hard for Republicans to understand... And by that I mean the people on this board who are just Republicans, not conservatives. I don’t intend that as an insult, a lot of people have made the mistake of thinking this is a Republican party site. They think the party should be supported no matter what. They don’t understand they’re enabling a progressively more dangerous and liberal machine, and allowing their votes to be taken advantage of in the process. The sad truth is, if they’ll excuse anything in the name of keeping Democrats out of power, that means they don’t really stand for anything to begin with. If they’re supposedly pro-life, but are ok with voting for a pro-choice candidate, then what does pro-life even mean? They need to realize this isn’t a sporting event where you pick your favorite team - but the future of our nation.
You are too self absorbed to understand my message.
Dirt, I thihnk we’ve had this argument before. I’ve only said a million times that while I don’t support a Giuliani presidency, I do support the right of the man to be heard.
As a native New Yorker and having lived under his Mayoralty for his entire time in office, I can promise you that he has more conservative credentials (in terms of bedrock conservative ideals; economics, taxes, law and order, etc) in his pocket than many of the other jokers currently in the beauty contest.
The issue with the “no bread” wing is that his conservatism does not extend to social issues, which is really their bugaboo. That wing of the conservatives believe that it should be the government’s job to police and enforce a narrowly-defined morality, and that is where they fall flat (and consequently why they are always disappointed). Many in this category are of the type who scream if you mention greater regulation of their own lives but who would also applaud if the government formed a Gestapo to peek into people’s bedroom windows to ensure they weren’t engaged in sexual acts speciifically proscribed by Scripture. An over-simplification, perhaps, but you get the point.
I understand that to some morality is the end-all-be-all, and to others that their right to buy a bazooka should be sacrosanct, but in the meantime, they are skewing the debate and attempting to silence or destroy a man with a proven rack record. It doesn’t hurt to listen, but apparently many are afraid that the man might be worth listening to in the first place, and people not a string-willed as themselves, the self-appointed hall-monitors of American society, migth be led astray. Hence the hostility and a lot of the stupidity.
Quite frankly, we have been led astray by a man who had the audacity to call Jesus “his favorite political philosopher”. But I guess that was alright, because you knew what “was in his heart”. Aparently it wasn’t quite as empty as his head. Amazing how GWB was sold to us a conservative and nowadays no conservative wants to be within half a mile of him and disavows all knowledge of his actions. BVut I guess that’s just human nature at work.
Anyway, as a party, when we start trying to destroy or silence the members that we disagree with, we only aid the opposition. No one is forcing you to vote for the man but if the majority of the populace (and the electoral votes that go with them) decides to choose him, there’s very little you can actually do about, it except piss and moan.
There are so many ‘benchmarks’ over the past one hundred years that mark the flop into liberalism to the point that even those claiming the ‘fiscal’ conservative mantle have deceived themselves into believing they can separate the one concept of conservatism.
The government has become the ‘god’ of so many, from health care to social security to who pays for abortions and a constitutional protection of the ‘civil’ right to sodomy. These politicos are now claiming that the survival of the fitness of their communities is based upon the ignoring of law and order to the demand of one side’s desire for cheap labor to the other side’s majority of votes. We just keep evolving along....taught every day at your local public house of worship called public education. Narcissism at its base.
Wrong. Guns are not a social issue. CFR is not a social issue. Global warming is not a social issue. Cronyism is not a social issue. Disregard for the Bill of Rights is not a social issue.
You keep acting like it's only about abortion and gay rights. It's not. It's about much, much more.
Very well put!!!
The government has become the 'god' of so many, from health care to social security to who pays for abortions and a constitutional protection of the 'civil' right to sodomy.
These politicos are now claiming that the survival of the fitness of their communities is based upon the ignoring of law and order (the mass invasion) to the demand of one side's desire for cheap labor to the other side's majority of votes. We just keep evolving along....taught every day at your local public house of worship called public education. Narcissism at its base.
Really? I have lived in NYC all my life and own firearms (four of them, long-arms, too!). I can promise you that at no time did Rudy or his jack-booted thugs kick my door in and try to take them away from me. Neither did Mario Cuomo or Michael Bloomberg or even Ed Koch. What they DID do was to enforce laws passed by legally-constituted legislatures at both the state, and federal, level.
And guns ARE a social issue because it was guns that brought you the Constitution, and which are the final safeguard of your person (the rights to life, self-defense, and all that). The issue is whether or not the protection of your life and property requires a flamethrower, hand grenades and cop-killer bullets, and what effect those items have upon the safety and cohesion of the rest of society. The one thing the gun nuts keep missing is that while they are screaming about their rights, they’re very often silent on the subject of their corresponding responsibilities to their fellow citizens.
If you can show me one instance in which Rudy “disregarded” the Bill of Rights, I’d be more than happy to agree with you, except that you cannot make that case logically — only emotionally. If enforcing the laws passed by elected legislatures is “disregarding” the Bill of Rights, I can show you several million pages of Supreme Court law that says it ain’t. I guess whether something falls into the “disregarded” category depends exclusively upon your own narrow point of view. This is, of couorse, merely human nature at work.
As for abortion and gay rights; I am against abortion, but realize that a) the Federal government can only affect this issue at the margins, and b) the Supreme Court will NEVER overturn Roe v. Wade, even if you packed it with Catholic Cardinals, because the corresponding SOCIAL movement to eliminate it does not exist. Without an overwhelming and obvious grassroots movement that brings 85% or more of the public along with it, the Court will never have a reason to reverse it course. They need that cover because the prestige and the mystique of the institution is at risk, and because the effect such a thing would have on American case law would make a Chief Justice’s Head explode.
As for gay rights, that’s a red herring. Gays already have rights. What they seek is MORE rights, and on general principles they should (and will be) denied. If gays want to truly see the oppression and persecution of folks based on their ‘preference’ I recommend they go to ‘Fag Stoning Night’ in Tehran every other weekend (right after mosque lets out, naturally). The argument has nothing to do with actual issues of freedom and rights and everything to do with emotion. Politics based upon emotions always fails in the end.
I really don't have time to rehash what has been hashed, rehashed, smashed and crashed. Rudy's gun-control history is very well documented. And if that's the kind of crap you are trying to pull, I won't bother with the rest of your long-winded blather. Have a nice day.
Blather? You don’t even bother to read it and call it blather?
Just when you were tying to make the argument that you were open-minded and principled, too. You’ve proved my point (about the “No Bread” wing) better than I ever could have.
Have a nice day!
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