Giuliani"s Unwelcome Birthday Guests

The New York Observer ^ | 5/29/07 | Azi Paybarah

[SUSSA]

Here’s an unwelcome birthday gift for Rudy Giuliani, as he travels around the city raising money: protests from fire fighters and family members of September 11th victims.

They've shown up in the past at Giuliani's presidential events. Today, they’re gathering in Bay Ridge, and they have plans to follow him nationwide starting sometime around January, according to Jim Riches, a deputy chief with the fire department whose son was killed in the World Trade Center attacks.

“We have all the UFA, the UFOA, and the fire members are all behind us -- the International Association of Fire Fighters,” said Riches. “And we’re going to be out there today to let everybody know that he’s not the hero that he says he is.”

The group’s complaints center on the faulty radios used by the fire department that day and what they say was a lack of coordination at Ground Zero.

And Riches disputes the notion that Giuliani provided any form of leadership on September 11 or in the days following.

“If somebody can tell me what he did on 9/11 that was so good, I’d love to hear it. All he did was give information on the TV”

“He did nothing,” Riches continued. “He stood there with a TV reporter and told everyone what was going on. And he got it from everybody else down at the site.”

[calcowgirl]

OK. It’s true that he had the wake-up call in ‘93.

And at another terrorist incident in '97 at the Empire State Building, he used the opportunity to call for strict gun control.

Another wake-up call--Rudy slept.

[calcowgirl]

Whatever the truth of this situation may be...

Since you're questioning others' research, may I ask:

Have you read the 9/11 Commission report in total?

Have you read the other resources available, i.e. the interviews conducted by the NY Times and reports on the transcripts of communications from that day?

What research have you performed, other than Rudy's talking points?

[P-40]

The 9/11 Report has plenty of things like this to say about Rudy:

The OEM’s headquarters was located at 7WTC. Some questioned locating it both so close to a previous terrorist target and on the 23rd floor of a build= ing (difficult to access should elevators become inoperable). There was no backup site.28

OR even this:

Nevertheless, the FDNY and NYPD each considered itself operationally autonomous.As of September 11, they were not prepared to comprehensively coordinate their efforts in responding to a major incident.The OEM had not overcome this problem.

But does not say anything like this about the response at the Pentagon:

While no emergency response is flawless, the response to the 9/11 terror= ist attack on the Pentagon was mainly a success for three reasons: first, the strong professional relationships and trust established among emergency responders; second, the adoption of the Incident Command System; and third, the pursuit of a regional approach to response. Many fire and police agencies that responded had extensive prior experience working together on regional events and training exercises. Indeed, at the time preparations were under way at many of these agencies to ensure public safety at the annual meetings of the International Monetary Fund and the World Bank scheduled to be held later that month in Washington,D.C.19

[California Patriot]

Obviously “the firefighters” — actually, their union leadership — could have a real impact on people’s opinions of Rudy. That doesn’t make them right.

Have I ever urged that we take Rudy’s, or his supporters’, let alone Oprah’s, word for anything? No.

[California Patriot]

Never said I’d researched this. I said I don’t have much faith in what union leaders say. Neither should anyone else on FReep.

[calcowgirl]

Reading that report was an eye opener for me. I remember reading those parts.

[calcowgirl]

Never said I’d researched this. I said I don’t have much faith in what union leaders say. Neither should anyone else on FReep.

Yet, had you read the thread, you would find that many of those who you continue to insult have indeed researched it. You continue to imply that they are only listening to union goons, or some such slur, and refuse to recognize that there is evidence to support the complaints--lots of it.

Support Rudy all you want, but please do it truthfully without insulting and trying to trash others.

[California Patriot]

I’m not supporting Rudy on this thread. I’ve also never endorsed him for the nomination, though I previously said some favorable things about him and thought he MIGHT be the guy. I’ve since soured on Rudy considerably.

But regardless of my view of the mayor, I’m urging great skepticism about “issues” that help the Rats. And about union leaders.

[P-40]

I have read some of the engineering reports that used the personal telephone, cell phone, and blackberry communications of those about to die to determine the exact time and sequence of each portion of the collapse of both towers. It is from that communication that mostly fills me with disgust towards Rudy and his ‘hero’ claims.

[calcowgirl]

The whole thing is so sad. I actually wouldn’t have had as harsh of words to say about Rudy and the planning team had it not been for their attitude after. They so enjoyed the limelight that arrogance took over where humility should reside. Many of them used 9/11 to create a myth about their great success and launch a business based on that myth (Rudy, Kerik, Von Essen, et al). To now stand center stage as a “hero” on the campaign trail is where my disgust hit its limits. That along with trying to push Bernard Kerik into the DHS slot.

The testimony from Rudy and Kerik was also disheartening. It seemed that neither would acknowledge mistakes clearly evidenced in hundreds of other places. Von Essen was a whole lot more honest when it came to that.

[P-40]

It is the attitudes afterwards that really got to me. I can tolerate the mistakes to some degree....but not the pompous attitudes that they were some sort of heroes. There are so many things I wish I had never read...and I will be glad when Rudy is just another footnote of history listed under pathetic fool.

[SUSSA]

Mr. Riches isn’t union leadership. He’s just a member.

You suggest he’s wrong about about Rudy, implying that, as Oprah says, he’s the “hero of 9-11” and “America’s mayor”.

Well, the guys on the ground that day don’t agree. Just like some of the Sswift boat vets don’t agree with the Navy that Kerry is a hero.

Just because the firefighters are members of a union that backed Rudy and Bush twice each doesn’t make them liberals or wrong.

[sheana]

The people who were ACTUALLY involved in 9/11, the first responders, don’t like Giuliani at all and it has nothing whatsoever to do with Hillary. It has to do with Giuliani.

[sheana]

Hubby was a member of the Firefighters Union for 33 yrs. Trust me the Union does not endorse the same candidates the rank and file would. In actuality, the firefighters don’t have much to say about it.
I have had many conversations with our Union Presidents about this.
It is all political with the Union bosses and they know they will usually get the most from Democratic candidates.
My argument has always been.....what good do increases in benefits and pay do when they take it back via higher taxes?
Our county is highly conservative and the Union always endorses the Dem on the ticket. I figure it is like that alot of places.

[SUSSA]

So are you saying the rank and file preferred Kerry over Bush?

[Seeing More Clearly Now]

Guiliani was the only American leader who had a strong enough sense of right and wrong to rightly refuse to meet with mass murderer terrorist kingpin Yasser Arafat. Guiliani even had him expelled from a public event Arafat had crashed.

Around the same time, Hillary Clinton was sucking up to Yasser Arafat and was even photographed hugging and kissing Mrs. Arafat.

Vive la difference!

I am disturbed by the campaign by some Freepers against Guiliani, who is tough on terror.

[sheana]

No, I said that the union’s endorsement has nothing to do with the rank and file.

[Charles Martel]

These are Clinton Union Goons doing her dirty work.

I would'nt be surprised, but do you have anything to back that up? Or is it just a speculation? Not all civil servants are liberals, despite popular misconception.

[CJ Wolf]

You still are uninformed. This “International Association of Fire Fighters” endorsed Kerry in 2004. (Key word international)

[The Oak]

If Rudy really takes money, even one cent, for speeches given about 9-11, he is of low character and does not deserve to hold the office of dog-catcher, much less president.