Posted on 05/13/2007 12:17:50 PM PDT by madconservative
DefendtheDefenders.org raises money and awareness for the defense of soldiers and Marines whose actions in the heat of combat are being second-guessed.
As many of you know, in March the Marine Special Operations Command had a convoy attacked in Bati Kot, Afghanistan (a town full of Taliban/Al Queda sympathizers) by a vehicle born I.E.D. (i.e., a suicide bomber in a car). According to Marines, the convoy was then ambushed twice by men using small arms fire. The Marines counterattacked, and in the battle civilians (alleged) were killed. When the town protested with wild claims of gun-happy and drunk Marines intentionally attacking civilians, the Army General in command of the area publicly kicked the entire unit out of the country, stating that the ferocity of the Marines had hurt our image in Afghanistan. This, of course, played directly into the hands of the attackers, who had hoped that an attack in a populated area would result in neutering the Marines.
The unit is now out of the country, not being used at all. Several of the Marines are now on trial; though the suicide bomber is not disputed, the Marines have been accused of imagining the ambushes (despite a. bullet holes in the humvees, and b. the fact that the unit is comprised of the most highly trained servicemen in the Marines, most of whom have already seen action in multiple deployments). Luckily, the X.O. was on the scene immediately following the attack with a camera to document the evidence, or these men might have been sacrificed for PR (I am a lifelong friend of the X.O., a man of the highest integrity and faith).
I am not sure why military leaders continue to throw our fighting men under the bus, but it has got to stop. The parents of the X.O. (who is not one of the accused Marines) have founded a site to get news out about the trials, and raise money to support the accused, including the C.O., who is now back in the U.S.
Being a close friend to the X.O., I have seen first hand the dedication, effort, and training it took to stand up a new unit over the last two years. I also know that until just prior to deployment, they were going to Iraq, but then the same Army commanders who are now accusing the Marines of using to much force, specifically pulled strings to get the Marines in theater, as their close relations to the tribal warlords precluded "kinetic" action by the Army special forces. They were asked to be the "Hammer".
The more I learn about the case, the more disgusted I am. Something must be done here guys. Anyone who has ever read my posts can tell you that I am not prone to undiscerning or overly simplistic opinion, and I have never posted a vanity. Please check out the site and forward the link. It has only been up a few days, and is under construction, so have patience!
P.S. the father or the X.O., and founder of the site is a contributor the the John Locke Foundation, and a serious conservative. You guys would love him.
Agreed.
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Thanks. We got a whole company of Special Ops Marines doing nothing right now. Something’s wrong with this picture.
Whether these guys are in the right or should go to jail is of lesser importance than the larger issue - the Marine Corps has no business as part of SOCOM. Great shock troops like the Rangers, they have no idea of the complexities of counterinsurgency. In fact, the vast majority of the military does not,
Let the hatemail begin...
I was unaware that SOCOM was dedicated solely to counterinsurgency, which evidently means “not killing terrorists”.
Certainly not solely dedicated, but to imagine that this is not a counterinsurgency and the game is played differently is to not understand the fight.
Murtha is running the investigations of Marines like mexico is running the investigations of the Border Patrol.
Give these men a job, Give them a sensible plan of battle and get the hell out of the way and let them get on with it.
SOCOM units are very adept at "killing terrorists". The problem is the Army knows how to conduct counterinsurgency with finesse and not with a truck full of hammers. It takes years to understand and develop good counterinsurgency fighters...something interloping units have not yet picked up on.
I love the army. All of the military in my family has been Army. I was in Army ROTC prior to deciding not to join the military. But the Army’s tactics are not exactly working in spades.
I don't know what evidence you'd base that off of. SOCOM is the tip of the terrorist killing spear. The word counterinsurgency is a badly maligned and misunderstood phrase, but to equate it with not killing terrorists is inaccurate. Rest assured, as far as a terrorist goes, once intel tracks him, SOCOM will whack him.
Yes and no.
First off, if these guys are getting railroaded because of politics and inter-service rivalries, that's not an issue of lesser importance. Letting bad PR and dumb policies sideline a unit of Marines, and possibly see them face trumped up charges, is abhorrent.
Second, I agree that the Corps has no business in SOCOM. This event illustrates that lack of discretion and finesse to the hilt. In theory, it could happen to anyone, but it happened to MARSOC right out the gate. The Marines are extremely capable at what they do, but trying to round hole/square peg them into SOCOM because some USMC generals think "Special Operations" sounds sexy is doing everyone a disservice.
I don't know if you mean that counterinsurgency efforts generally fail, or that SOCOM generally fails at them, but neither is the case. In Iraq, COIN is a catch-phrase that gets a lot of lip service, but is not really put into practice. There's too much top pressure to get results fast, and very few advocates of doing it right. Green Berets in Iraq are used more for direct action mission than they are getting into communities and training new troops, and the higher teir SOF is exclusively playing whack-a-mole.
Before Iraq, I spent a good deal of time in the southern Philippines, which was a great counterinsurgency success in breaking support for the Abu Sayyaf Group within the local communities themselves. There's great FID and COIN successes all over the world, keeping the lid on simmering problems. There won't be a similar level of success in Iraq and Afghanistan precisely because it's the Big Army running the show, not SOCOM. Big Army is too traditional, clumsy, politicized, and heavy handed to do it right.
In any event, my point remains that SOCOM is not meant to be limited to counterinsurgency measures, MARSOC's operating doctrine was not based on counterinsurgency nor did they claim it to be, and they were not asked to come to Afghanistan to act in this regard. They were to be a kinetic resource at the disposal of the counterinsurgency force, a mission with little or no nuance. The story was that the Special Forces in the area felt (for exactly the reasons you listed) that they could not strike definitively where their dealings with the tribal warlords would be jeopardized. They were brought in to be bad cop to Special Forces' good cop. They were given unprecedented partnership with the Nightstalkers to this end (which to my knowledge is not given to say, the SEALs).
Their first engagement was the aforementioned ambush of a convoy, with a vehicle borne I.E.D. and small arms attack from two locations. Respectfully (as it is obvious that you know far more than I do on the subject), how would you have dealt with this situation? I can appreciate nuance in planning and in communication with the population, but we are talking about bullets flying now. What would the Green Berets have done differently here?
I can understand being the devil’s advocate, but I am trying to get support for the Marines whose careers are ruined and who are at risk of prison for fighting off an ambush. I really don’t think our debate is helpful to that end. They were asked to go, they went, they fought, and they may go to jail for following their SOP.
I do agree on the first point. Certainly. I just have family history with Marines and will never accept them for more than their face value.
And I do wish more folks could understand the impossibly deadly nature of SF NCOs. When Blank Frank Toney decided to reinstate the warrior skills (read SFAUC) for A Teams, that was the best thing to happen in Group in ages. I guess the long hair means that they have no tactical expertise...
Take care,
BD
I agree completely. I am a 11.5 year SF team guy (now retired), and the jarheads have no business in our business. If they want to do UW then let them ETS jarhead-land, join the Army, go Airborne, and then do SFAS and the QC. The jarheads should stay down at the beach where they belong.
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