A FairTax Tale

Nealznuze ^ | 5-11-07 | Neal Boortz

[Hostage]

I understand that very well.

Uh.... no , you don't.

[Always Right]

What? You can’t handle the level of the debate and so you complain like a kid on the playground who doesn’t get his way?

LOL, level of debate. You don't even make a point.

The fact is that you have not backed up your claim. And as I said to be fair you can’t back it up because it is not capable of being supported. Now if you make unsubstantiated unsupported claims on such an important matter, then why should anyone give you the time of day?

I got more to back up my claims than a bunch of paid for whore economists. I actually have tons of experience actually making a living and running a business in the field. I know exactly what my compliance costs are and how much I can save by eliminating the income tax. And it ain't nearly what the so-called paid-for experts assume. What some dimwit paid-for 'expert' says who hasn't made an honest dime in his live says means nothing to me.

Here is all that people need to know about you: http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1831865/posts?page=160#159

WTF is that suppose to mean? You can't dispute something so you just use some underhanded method to imply something is wrong with the post. What are you, the latest in the line of paid for posters from the fairtax organization. You wouldn't be the first on this forum.

[Always Right]

I understand that very well. Uh.... no , you don't.

She understands it 100 times better than your mush for brains butt. All you can do is attack people's intelligence, when it it you who can't articulate a decent argument. Throughout this thread all you do is attack people who disagree with you.

[Hostage]

I already made my point.

You made an absurd claim in Post #98:

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1831865/posts?page=100#98

to wit:
________________________________________________________

New home sales will not be impacted at all. The NRST will be financed as part of the mortgage.

YOU-—>Whether it is included in the mortgage makes no difference.

The increase in monthly payments is more than offset by the increase in the paycheck.

YOU-—>So you are assuming workers will keep all the money so suppliers will not see those savings from the elimination of income tax? You do realize that means prices in labor, materials and supplies will not come down and will you add the sales tax on the end prices will go up?
________________________________________________________

In these and other statements you have no backup and you display a gross lack of understanding of the subject matter.

You are a hack, a troll, a disruptor whose purpose is to create doubt. I and others know your game and it won’t work. Your attempts at creating doubt are no more that ‘gnats’ buzzing about the warhorse.

As I have said repeatedly you have no backup to your statements and you have been asked repeatedly to provide backup but you haven’t. Instead you are playing your usual game of trying to discredit the people that call you on your tactics and you are losing.

Of course you could end everything in your favor by backing up your statements but you won’t because you can’t. That means what you have to say is worth less than the stuff that gets dropped in the field by the bull everyday.

We are up to 183 posts in this thread now and you were asked in the middle of the thread to back up your statements and you haven’t. For my statements there is backup, for yours there is BS with an attitude.

Back to you. Let’s see you try again.

[Always Right]

In these and other statements you have no backup and you display a gross lack of understanding of the subject matter.

I back it up more than you do. What kind of idiot can't understand that adding a 30% premium to new house when nothing is added to existing homes will effect the competitiveness of new homes and hurt their sales. The fact that you may be able to finance the 30% premium on a new home doesn't mean jack.

You are a hack, a troll, a disruptor whose purpose is to create doubt. I and others know your game and it won’t work. Your attempts at creating doubt are no more that ‘gnats’ buzzing about the warhorse.

Troll? Give me a break. I am not the one who instigates personal attacks on every post. What a loser.

[lucysmom]

Your attempts at creating doubt...

He doesn't realize that doubt is a good thing when presented with a plan that double counts, obfuscates, and seems just plain too good to be true.

Doubt motivates one to think (a painful process for some), to question, and to do one's own research; it means taking responsibility over taking someone's word.

Peter Pan implores the children to clap their hands if they believe in fairies - its the only way to save Tinker Bell - no room for doubt. Hostage implores us to cast aside doubt and believe in the fairytax - its the only way his monthly check will appear in his mailbox.

[Hostage]

Just as you have been acting on this thread since you were first challenged to back up your claim, you refuse to.

It’s simple mathematics and was outlined previously in my posts in this thread. Go back and read and you will find the key sentence that you said had no effect. It it has no effect, then show general calculations showing there is no effect and be sure to list your assumptions.

Specifically show what you claim that under the FairTax, a homebuyer who has the NRST added to the price of a home with both price and taxes financed in the mortgage, will not be able to offset the increase in monthly payments with the increase in take-home pay.

So why won’t you back up your claim? Because you can’t.

And for the umpteenth time I will expose your obvious slash and bash tactic, that when a detractor makes absurd claims without back up, not only is that detractor attempting to disrupt and hijack the thread into the direction of nonsense, but that disruptor is signaling they have no credibility, no basis for reasoned debate, and no capability to do research.

[Always Right]

It’s simple mathematics and was outlined previously in my posts in this thread. Go back and read and you will find the key sentence that you said had no effect. It it has no effect, then show general calculations showing there is no effect and be sure to list your assumptions.

Fairtax takes effect 2010. You have two identical houses except one was originally built and sold in 2009 and one is brand new. The house built in 2009 is priced at $200,000 and is not subject to the fairytax. The house built in 2010 is also priced at $200,000, but the buyer must pay an additional $60,000 in sales tax.

In your 'reasoning' since the buyer will be able to finance the whole $260,000, the fact that the new house costs $60,000 more makes no difference. All I have to say is, what are you smoking? Anyone who is not brain dead would buy the older house for $60,000 less.

It’s simple mathematics and was outlined previously in my posts in this thread.

That is a complete lie. You haven't even done one calculation on this entire thread or backed up anything. All you do is spew bullcrap and insults. Typical lying SOB fairytax supporter. Nothing new here. How much does the fairtax organization pay your worthless butt to post? Whatever it is, it is too much.

[goldstategop]

The income tax taxes the productive more and rewards dependency. If you're over a certain tax bracket, you're also punished by being taxed more simply because other people pay little or no income tax at all. So yes, its a redistributive scheme. Which is exactly why politicians like the income tax - it allows them to do social engineering via the tax code.

"Show me just what Mohammed brought that was new, and there you will find things only evil and inhuman, such as his command to spread by the sword the faith he preached." - Manuel II Palelologus

[goldstategop]

The consumption tax doesn't target investments and savings. It only taxes consumption. When you buy an item, you pay a tax to acquire it. We're already familiar with such a tax: the sales tax. I find its implications less troubling than the income tax, which invades my personal privacy and assumes the government has first claim to my assets regardless of whether or not I spend them.

"Show me just what Mohammed brought that was new, and there you will find things only evil and inhuman, such as his command to spread by the sword the faith he preached." - Manuel II Palelologus

[Always Right]

The income tax taxes the productive more and rewards dependency. If you're over a certain tax bracket, you're also punished by being taxed more simply because other people pay little or no income tax at all. So yes, its a redistributive scheme. Which is exactly why politicians like the income tax - it allows them to do social engineering via the tax code.

What do you call those little monthly fairytax prebate checks that would dwarf the social security program in size? Many people under the fairtax would pay nothing or even make money. And how about certain items like education being exempt from the fairtax. The fairtax hasn't even been passed yet and it already has exceptions and social engineering in it. The opportunity for social engineering is alive and well with the fairtax. It doesn't even eliminate many of the existing social engineering taxes like cigarette, alcohol or fuel taxes.

[goldstategop]

A rebate isn't a government check. Its more like a negative tax cedit designed to boost your buying power. States which have no income tax are better run than states that have an income tax. Living in a civilized society, I appreciate taxes are the price of civilization. Therefore, I want the least objectionable tax and the least obtrusive means of collecting it. The Fair Tax fits those criteria far better than the income tax.

[goldstategop]

The Fair Tax comes into play only when people spend their money. There are no tax shelters in it, since you can amass a tax-free income and the government won't care where you keep your money. The one and only time you get taxed is when you spend your money and the amount of tax due is ALWAYS visible upfront. So you know what government costs you - and therein lies the lesson - government isn't free. You pay for it. With the Fair Tax, there would be ONLY ONE tax. I'm NOT talking about a European style VAT here. Just a tax collected at the retail level.

"Show me just what Mohammed brought that was new, and there you will find things only evil and inhuman, such as his command to spread by the sword the faith he preached." - Manuel II Palelologus

[goldstategop]

Every individual or business can alter their tax burden by simply altering their consumption patterns. That will set the amount of tax the government can expect to take in at a definite level. People decide what they think government is worth. All they have to do is check their purchase slip. If its too high, they can just stop buying.

"Show me just what Mohammed brought that was new, and there you will find things only evil and inhuman, such as his command to spread by the sword the faith he preached." - Manuel II Palelologus

[Always Right]

The Fair Tax comes into play only when people spend their money.

Except if you are one of the millions of self-employed people like myself, it is effectively a 23% gross income tax. I can't earn money without having to send money to the government.

[Always Right]

Every individual or business can alter their tax burden by simply altering their consumption patterns. That will set the amount of tax the government can expect to take in at a definite level. People decide what they think government is worth. All they have to do is check their purchase slip. If its too high, they can just stop buying.

I can do the same today. If I don't want to pay income tax, I just stop working. Under the fairtax, you avoid taxes by not eating or paying rent or driving or otherwise living. Most people don't consider most of their expenses optional, so you are really not offering much of a choice.

[goldstategop]

You can earn money and put it in the bank. The government can't tax your income DIRECTLY under the Fair Tax. The one and only time it collects the 23% is when you spend the money. Now, you pay a lot more since you pay a plethora of different taxes that come to more than 23% of your income under the current tax system. It taxes income regardless of what you do with it. And it isn't fair since no one knows what they really owe - even the IRS gets income tax obligations wrong HALF the time. The Fair Tax is about transparency and simplicity. You pay just what you owe and not a cent more.

"Show me just what Mohammed brought that was new, and there you will find things only evil and inhuman, such as his command to spread by the sword the faith he preached." - Manuel II Palelologus

[Hostage]

In your 'reasoning' since the buyer will be able to finance the whole $260,000, the fact that the new house costs $60,000 more makes no difference. All I have to say is, what are you smoking? Anyone who is not brain dead would buy the older house for $60,000 less.

You have a reading and comprehension problem.

Here is the question again:

Specifically show your claim that under the FairTax, a homebuyer who has the NRST added to the price of a home with both price and taxes financed in the mortgage, will not be able to offset the increase in monthly payments with the increase in take-home pay.

Show it.

[goldstategop]

You can work zero hours and not pay any income tax. You could do the same under the Fair Tax by not consuming anything. The income tax is the greater evil since it taxes both income and consumption. You don't have much of a choice on both ends. The consumption tax taxes just ONCE. If I had to choose, I'd rather pay one tax and then enjoy the rest of my life.

"Show me just what Mohammed brought that was new, and there you will find things only evil and inhuman, such as his command to spread by the sword the faith he preached." - Manuel II Palelologus

[Hostage]

You haven’t shown a thing in your ramblings except flawed assumptions.

You claim to be a real estate expert yet you confuse production costs with market risk.

You insinuate the FairTax is ‘too good to be true’ when no one in the movement has made that claim. In fact people will still pay taxes, that is a given. The differences are that the FairTax is a superior form of taxation in terms of American values.

How you can try and defend the insanity of the ‘Income’ tax against the superiority of the FairTax and to do so on thread after thread where you are challenged and fail to meet the challenges, shows clearly you have a stake in the ‘Income’ tax system. You are likely to be an IRS employee that is scared to death that talk of the FairTax is going to put you out on the pavement looking for your next job, a real job.

Like I warned you before, demographics are going to bring on the FairTax and there is nothing anyone can do to stop it. You got less than six years to retool yourself. You’d better get busy.