FARMS is not FARMS anymore. If the new name is not more of an endorsement than the old, I don't know what is:
Posted on 05/04/2007 5:46:36 AM PDT by Saundra Duffy
I thought they were talking specifically about a Christian assembly where Mormons were passed over. Who is Mrs. Dobson? Sorry I assumed she was the leader of a Christian organization.
If it was a govenment assembly and Mormons are NEVER asked to pray I would be interested in seeing a like.
Do you know how many McTemples there now are? Did you tell those poor Africans about the teaching of Prophet John Taylor, that God put blacks on earth to represent Satan? I doubt it....it wouldn’t be good PR.
Try telling Al Sharkton and Jesse Jackson that. I guess you don't stay current with the world. Any statement by ANY leader OTHER than a democrat will guarantee a major hearing in the MSM. And Don Imus wasn't even a leader.
Sevenbaks answer: Women say prayers all the time in Sacrament meeting. The blessing of the sacrament is a priesthood function though, so no, they don't. It would seem your attempt to pigeonhole the LDS as discriminating would also work against the early Church. Are you sure you want to go there? The LDS do not hold these traditions like the early saints did, but you seem to be wanting us to go back to times of old!
Prayers in Sacrament meeting are different than "prayers over the sacrament." You know this very well and yet your answer was quite deceptive don't you think? Women are not and have never been able to perform the sacramental prayer (as greyfoxx put it - "over the sacrament") and you know it. Do you think it is honest to answer questions in a deceptive way?
Perhaps you'd better tred different waters?
Saundra's statement was this: "Finally, let me ask you, would you draw the line at letting anybody lead your group in prayer?" WHICH I noted in my post.
My question still stands: Saundra, just curious here. Are women allowed to offer the prayers over the sacrament in the LDS church yet? They weren't when I was a member, nor were they allowed to offer the opening or closing prayer in Sacrament meeting.
I'm sure she can answer for herself, BTW.
When the LDS allows women deacons and elders, as many "mainstream" Christian churches do, you may invite me to "tred" different waters. I don't think you wish to get into the whole subject of the role of mormon women as second-class citizens in the mormon church.
As an aside, the mormon church's attempt to portray itself as "mainstream" would be boosted in the eyes of women if they moved away from THAT practice of the early church.
Color, perhaps you would care to comment on this conversation?
I thought it was funny (sad) in the last general conference when the Prophet Gordon B. Hinkley stated that his wife was his most prized possession.
LDS people may not even recognize how ludicrous and offensive statements like this are to the rest of Christianity.
Perhaps if there is enough political fallout over sexual discrimination in the LDS Church, there will be....voila.....a NEW REVELATION! Only if things get very, very uncomfortable for the Church however. How can you keep women in line if they think they can actually give healing blessings to their own children?
But I’ve already been accused of being a despised “feminist” which is hilarious considering I am married for 24 years to a very traditional Hispanic gentleman. We firmly hold to our traditional rolls in our household....(just in case one of you wants to impugn me by suggesting I am a “man hater.)
NNN if you are reading, I am sorry.
DU, there are going to be a lot of questions about Romney's faith before this is over with. There are going to be a lot of HARD questions, and there are going to be a lot of what you will see as aspersions, lies, slander, etc. coming from sources other than the family of FR.
You have taken on the role of "defender of the faith" here, and as you state in your post above "I for one am ashamed that my actions may have had some part in goading him to take the actions that got him banned." you have been quick to take offense, quick to goad, and quick to ping the mod. I congratulate you for stepping up and owning your mistakes. All of us on these various threads have at times made mistakes.
It is MY belief that you and others do your side no favor by constantly taking posts as personal affronts. There is room for a snide little remark occasionally, or a heated reaction to an individual statement, but most of us non or former (please, drop the "anti" stuff!) mormons are as fervent in our belief about the LDS church as you are.
We are not going to convert each other, and I think we should ALL keep in mind that EACH side has the SAME right to put forth the facts AS WE SEE THEM before the other people that are reading the thread. We are all missionaries in one way or the other. It is up to the individual reading our posts to make an informed decision on the merits.
So, I am requesting that we ALL consider the banning of Needle Nose Neely as a lesson, and think twice, no SIX times before making that personal attack or pinging the mod. And I wish NNN were allowed to come back.
“When ye pray, say, Our Father which art in heaven,”
If you know of a different commandment to pray a different way, I’ld love to see it?
We are told to pray in His name, but not pray TO Him. That said, the faithful followers of him, from whatever religion they are, that pray to him are still heard, I have no doubt.
Oaths and covenants made by members of the Church in the temples are no greater threat to our nation than are the oaths made by Masons in their ceremonies. Did you know there have been 15 Presidents who were Masons? Did they circumvent the Constitution or will of the people because of their rites, oaths and covenants? I think George Washington would disagree with you!
MASONIC PRESIDENTS OF THE UNITED STATES
George Washington, 1st President, 1789 - 1797, Commanding General during American Revolution, made a Mason August 4, 1753, in Fredericksburg Lodge (now No. 4), A. F. & A. M., Fredericksburg, Virginia.
James Monroe, 5th President, 1817 - 1825, made a Mason November 9, 1775, in Williamsburg Lodge (now No. 6), A.F. & A.M., Williamsburg, Virginia.
Andrew Jackson, 7th President, 1829 - 1837 Harmony Lodge No. 1, Nashville, Tennessee, an Honorary Member of Federal Lodge No. 1, F. & A.M., Washington, D.C., and Jackson Lodge No. 1, F. & A.M., Tallahassee, Florida. In 1822 and 1823 he served as the Grand Master of Masons in Tennessee.
James Knox Polk, 11th President, 1845 - 1849, made a Mason September 4, 1820, in Columbia Lodge No. 31, F. & A.M., Columbia, Tennessee.
James Buchanan, 15th President, 1857 - 1861, made a Mason January 24, 1817, in Lodge No. 43 (it has no name), F. & A.M., Lancaster, Pennsylvania.
Andrew Johnson, 17th President, 1865 - 1869, made a Mason during May, 1851, in Greeneville Lodge No. 119 (now No. 3), F. & A.M., Greeneville, Tennessee.
James Abram Garfield, 20th President. 1881, made a Mason November 22, 1864, in Columbus Lodge No. 30 F. & A.M., Columbus, Ohio.
William McKinley, 25th President, 1897 - 1901, made a Mason May 3, 1865, in Hiram Lodge No. 21, A.F. & A.M., Winchester, Virginia.
Theodore Roosevelt, 26th President, 1901 - 1909, made a Mason April 24, 1901, in Matinecock Lodge No. 806, F. & A.M., Oyster Bay, New York.
William Howard Taft, 27th President, 1909 - 1913 - Chief Justice Supreme Court 1921 - 1930, made a “Mason at Sight” in an “Occassional Lodge” called for that purpose on February 18, 1909, in the Scottish Rite Cathedral, Cincinnati, Ohio, by Charles S. Hoskinson, Grand Master of Masons in Ohio.
Warren Gamaliel Harding, 29th President, 1921 - 1923, made a Mason August 27, 1920, in Marion Lodge No. 70, F. & A.M., Marion, Ohio.
Franklin Delano Roosevelt, 32nd President, 1933 - 1945, made a Mason November 28, 1911, in Holland Lodge No. 8, F. & A.M., New York, New York, the same Lodge in which George Washington, the Nation’s first President, held Honorary membership.
Harry S. Truman, 33rd President, 1945 - 1951, made a Mason March 18, 1909, in Belton Lodge No. 450, A.F. & A.M., Belton, Missouri. He served as the Grand Master of Masons of Missouri in 1940.
Initiated: February 9, 1909, Belton Lodge No. 450, Belton, Missouri.
In 1911, several Members of Belton Lodge separated to establish Grandview Lodge No. 618, Grandview, Missouri, and Brother Truman served as its first Worshipful Master. At the Annual Session of the Grand Lodge of Missouri, September 24-25, 1940, Brother Truman was elected (by a landslide) the ninety-seventh Grand Master of Masons of Missouri, and served until October 1, 1941. Brother and President Truman was made a Sovereign Grand Inspector General, 33º, and Honorary Member, Supreme Council on October 19,1945 at the Supreme Council A.A.S.R. Southern Jurisdiction Headquarters in Washington D.C., upon which occasion he served as Exemplar (Representative) for his Class. He was also elected an Honorary Grand Master of the International Supreme Council, Order of DeMolay. On May 18, 1959, Brother and Former President Truman was presented with a fifty-year award, the only U.S. President to reach that golden anniversary in Freemasonry.
Gerald R. Ford, Jr. 38th President, 1974 - 1977. He was raised to the Sublime degree of Master Mason on May 18, 1951 in Columbia Lodge No. 3, F. &.A.M., of Washington, D.C., as a courtesy for Malta Lodge No. 465, F. & A.M. of Grand Rapids, Michigan.
Lyndon Baines Johnson 1908-1973. 36th President, 1963 - 1969. Entered Apprentice degree Johnson City Lodge No. 561, Johnson City, Texas October 30, 1937. Did not advance.
Is that a prophecy? ;-)
More a "burning in the bosom". ;-)
Why do you think the abuse button was hit? It seemed very clear that the Mod told him to knock it off, and 2 of his posts were pulled. Does he have no accountability in your mind?
I wish I had your confidence. I'll take your ten to one odds.
Nice try.
FARMS is not FARMS anymore. If the new name is not more of an endorsement than the old, I don't know what is:
When the MSM starts saying the same things I have here, that kind of argument will be useless. I don't know how I can impress on you the evil of the clinton machine. The message of the November election seems to have passed over the heads of a lot of people, but it scared the "heck" out of me.
ROTFL! I think it's the water.
Tant, that is a very broad interpretation of the passage. Is following Jesus therefore interpreted by you to include all the doctrine of the mormon church, including the three degrees of glory, the "man will become God" theory, the requirement to obey the WOW, the garment thing etc.
I am not a thelogian here, but from a logical point of view, statements that "following Jesus" means all that are part of what Christians deplore.
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