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To: betty boop; Alamo-Girl
>> I'd be willing to entertain all proposals!!!

Secularists may say those things, but not all libertarians are of that persuasion. I am one myself; or more precisely, I began as one and wore the title with pride for years. But of course, I have no truck with the present breed! To me, Christian libertarian is the only political compass, and you can take it straight from Corinthians -- Where the spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty. Secular libertarians go off the pier in pretending liberty means freedom FROM God.

Seems to me it's always a question of what Authority one recognizes. We have to get our certitudes somewhere and we cannot serve two masters. Politically, the choices are God or the state. Even libertarians (neo variety) will turn to the state if they will not have God. Libertarians of the old school see the state as innately evil. The Lord doesn't think much of it either :-) -- See 1 Samuel 8-18. Institutionally, the state seems bent on breaking all 10 Commandments at once. At the least an airtight case can be made that it supports itself entirely by taking other people's property without their permission -- they call it taxation, anyone else could call it theft. By any name it is wrong and destructive. Such has always been the nature of the state, all states, from the beginning: one class exploiting another. Even Marx got that one right.

The old-school libertarian stood uncompromisingly for the natural rights -- life, liberty, property. I still do. There is no telling what the new ones believe. Once you abandon God, the mind has no place to anchor.

18,123 posted on 05/03/2007 8:15:25 AM PDT by T'wit (If reproductive success is the mainspring of evolutionary advance, why is it so damned clumsy?)
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To: T'wit; Alamo-Girl; hosepipe; tpaine; Quix
Secularists may say those things, but not all libertarians are of that persuasion. I am one myself; or more precisely, I began as one and wore the title with pride for years. But of course, I have no truck with the present breed!

I've always sort of regarded John Locke as the "classical libertarian." I have few "problems" with him....

But this modern breed -- I find it difficult to distinguish them from Left Progressives on many, many issues. :^(

I wholly agree with your statement: "Where the spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty. Secular libertarians go off the pier in pretending liberty means freedom FROM God."

Yeah -- those guys of the "bite the hand that feeds you" school. For the life of me, I can't figure out what they think they gain from this attitude. Whatever it is, it seems it must be thoroughly illusionary....

And this observation of yours: "The old-school libertarian stood uncompromisingly for the natural rights -- life, liberty, property [e.g., John Locke]. I still do. There is no telling what the new ones believe. Once you abandon God, the mind has no place to anchor."

Oh my, that is so very, very true! Those who abandon God stand on shifting and shifty sands.... They take a flight from reason itself. Or so it seems to me, FWIW.

Thank you so much, T'wit, for your brilliant essay/post!

18,124 posted on 05/03/2007 9:20:36 AM PDT by betty boop ("Science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind." -- A. Einstein.)
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