[metmom]

and since many totalitarian governments over the years have been religious, while many non religious people like myself cherish freedom and the founding ideals of our country.

We could reword that....Let's try this instead...

and since some of the worst totalitarian governments over the years have been non-religious, while many non religious people like myself cherish freedom and the founding ideals of our country.

We can have that *like myself* mean me.

Don't forget that is was very religious people, like the founding fathers, that founded this country.

[Sam Cree]

What you say in post 14 is correct, Metmom. I think it doesn’t refute my point at all, but it does make another one.

I may not be personally religious, but I am mindful that the US was founded within a Christian framework, with Christian ethics as guidelines. The ideal of individual freedom which is the unique format of the founding of the US is not specifically Christian IMO, but I freely admit that it flowered only in a Christian society. It’s roots go back to Anglo Saxon days - whether or not those roots go back to pre Christian times, I am not aware.