Posted on 04/18/2007 1:29:40 PM PDT by harwood
Just heard anchorette report this on pMSNBC
I know where you are coming from here, and I’m with you. Still, I suppose some might call it a fine line between tinfoil conspiracy theories and bringing to light shenanigans covered up or ignored by the lamestream media. The Sandy Berger thing comes to mind as an example of the latter. And that makes it hard for the mods to draw the line?
I agree wholeheartedly that this kid was insane. And that’s all there is to it.
But when I was in school, this kind of thing was virtually nonexistent in any school.
I'm dying to know which book you're talking about.
Way back when, forty plus years ago, "THE ADVENTURES OF HUCKLEBERRY FINN" was the vanguard book, that somehow got called a HOMOSEXUAL book. That's ridiculous and we all howled with laughter over that, but for some strange reason, parents have stopped going to schools and protesting the stupidity of such things.
(from the msnbc article)
....The communication is the last known red flag raised by Cho, 23, a senior English major at Virginia Polytechnic Institute and State University, who killed 32 people in two separate attacks Monday before taking his own life.....
On first, second and third reading it seems as if "red flag" refers to an event preceeding the murders.
Yes, I know and I don’t understand why.
I had a prof who announced on the first day of class that he never gave an A because it meant the student was perfect. As no one is perfect, then no one can an A. He said if you are in pre-med and need a perfect 4.0 average, drop the class. Two-thirds of the class walked out. And he really never gave an A! I got a B. It took down my average, but I was proud of that B. Yeah, I know. I should have walked out, too. I was young and idealistic and he was a great teacher.
LOL!
Is that gibberish supposed to mean something?
You said — “If you have no idea why he called himself Ishmael, why would you say that the most obvious answer is hatred? Most of us who see the Islam connection hope we are dead wrong but it needs to be explored since PravdABDNC is not going to.”
Now wait a minute this “hate discussion” that I got going on wasn’t really a comment on Cho (on my part). It started as a comment on someone saying that since the Jihadists were filled with “hate” and “anger” that they were just as crazy as Cho — in other words, trying to make a *linkage* between Cho and the Jihadists on the basis of hate and anger.
It was post #754, with a comment from another poster — “Their leaders might. However, those they get to blow themselves up, along with innocents, and other non-combatants are filled with hate, anger, and are every bit as fanatically crazy as Cho.”
Now, my point — is simplly that these Jihadists are *not crazy* or *insane* on the basis of hate and anger. And that hate and anger can be good and bad (depending on what it is directed at — and — the “means” which are used).
Thus, “hate and anger” do *not* constitute a measurement for insanity and “craziness”.
To make the point — I pointed out that God hates, Christians hate and FReepers hate — all legitimately so. God hates sin and evil, Christians are also told to hate sin and evil, and the FReepers hated the immorality that was exemplified by Clinton. Those are perfectly valid uses for hate. Furthermore, I also pointed out that God says to not sin in your anger. Anger is not bad; but to sin in your anger is bad.
Thus, anger and hate is not the measurement for insanity. We can hate just as much as the Jihadists — but not towards the same things — only towards the things that God says to hate. And when doing so, never hate by comitting sin (i.e., “doing evil deeds” in your hate.).
Doing evil deeds in your hate is what the Jihadists do. First of all they direct their hate towards the “good things” and not the bad thing. Then secondly they *implement* their hate by means of evils methods and not by means of righteousness. That’s a real big difference.
And so, the Jihadists are not crazy and insane any more than we are for “hate” — but they are evil and despicable for how they direct their hate (to the wrong things) and how they implement their hate (suicide bombings, killing innocents, etc., etc.).
Finally — in saying all this — it’s more or less just an “analytical look” at the distinctions of Insanity and being a “nutcase” (which Cho is). The Jihadists are not insane (in the manner of Cho) even though they are evil and do evil acts and deeds. There is a distinction here between Cho and the Jihadists. Cho is disturbed and insane, the Jihadists are not insane or disturbed (although evil and despicable). The Jihadists fit very well into their “worldview” (which differs from our dramatically) — but that doesn’t make them insane or disturbed. They are *dedicated* — but — they are dedicated to “evil” — and not to “insanity”. There’s a difference.
Cho is insane “and” evil — both at the same time. He’s not a Jihadist.
So, I did not comment on Cho in terms of hatred, but only in terms of insane and evil. And for the Jihadists, I said they are evil but not insane. And for us, I said that we are not insane, not evil — but — we can also hate just as much as the Jihadists (but directed hate towards the things which are evil, and not “sin” in terms of how we respond to it, by our actions).
I hope that summarizes everything clearly. I’ve done about as good as I can.
.
And continuing — “If you don’t have the answer you really can’t rip people who are attempting to find an answer. Thinking outside of the box is not hate but exploring different theories. What if you are wrong and we are right?? Is it hate then?”
Well, I admitted to the fact of what everyone else has to admit to, also — whether they want to or not. And that is that the information is simply not there to support any of these theories about that name. As I said before, it’s one of *four* theories and any of them can be valid. Only one of those has to do with Islam. The other three do not. At this point in time, you can only speculate. There simply does not exist any evidence that even remotely bring Islam into the picture, while there is *plenty of evidence* that brings psychiatric problems into the picture (namely, he’s a “nutball” not a Jihadist).
You asked what if I am wrong? About what? Being a jihadist. Well, if that’s so — if that’s the case that I’m wrong and they’ve actually recruited this guy to be a Jihadist, then I would have to say we’re winning the war against these Islamic terrorists, if that’s the best kind of guy they can come up with. We’re definitely making progress then. But, I really don’t see a single shred of evidence for Islam — while I see tons of evidence for “nutball”.
Well, talk about terrorism... it’s the following you should be worried about *more* than Cho being a terrorist (which there’s no evidence to even show it).
Take a look at what the Islamic terrorist do want to do. Here’s your *real* terror plot. Take a good look....
http://kerryfoxlive.com/wordpress/?p=6422
This is the one that people better be looking for. It’s also known as Beslan, too — http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beslan_school_hostage_crisis
This is the one that is coming soon. Be ready for it...
Regards,
Star Traveler
P.S. — And Cho is not the example for that link that I gave you above. The example is Beslan and much, much worse.
VaTech needs to be shut down. The entire police force needs to be given stalinist style show trials and taken to the gallows.
This is a total disgrace from the top down. A: Barring students from carrying.
B: And most importantly, B.. They had an on-campus murder scene. They didn’t lock the place down. The murderer, on the loose, was free to: 1. Make numerous pictures and videos and diatribes. 2. Mail those out to NBC. 3. Aquire chains (remember, this is during a murder scene area) and lock down a building and shoot everyone in sight inside. 4. The worst of it all, the cops are seen ON VIDEO standing around outside, plump and moist, and not charging the place while shots are being fired and people inside are screeming and dying.
One can’t imagine my utter disgust at police in general after TWICE not going in to save students (this and Columbine).
The kind of crazed posts, based on NOTHING at all but paranoid fears and delusions, are a completely new thing for this site. And at one time, tinfoil garbage was almost always deleted pretty quickly. Now, it's not only posted, but allowed to remain up.
People on FR used to do a lot of really great research on a whole host of things. RATHERGATE was just the latest and biggest, that the MSM picked up on.
Now, it appears that the crackpot junk is being quoted.
Their leaders might. However, those they get to blow themselves up, along with innocents, and other non-combatants are filled with hate, anger, and are every bit as fanatically crazy as Cho.
#786. Actually no..., they’re not any more filled with hate than the FReepers were with Clinton and his shenanigans. In fact, I’ve seen interviews of kids (in the Palestinian Authority areas, in Israel) who are simply filled with eagerness to demonstrate their love for Allah and to gain “paradise”
Uh, I was referring to crazy people that blow up themselves and innocent people.
I must say, that was an interesting response.
"Aren't there any weight restrictions for rural Virginia police forces!?"
Sheesh, some boys had been hitting the barbeque. It is a wonder they could hoof it up the grassy knolls without passing out.
Too bad they couldn't have gotten the lead out and gotten in there somehow.
I’m a retread and first joined in early 1998. I recently returned from overseas and forgot my password (getting older is no fun). Thank you for the warm welcome, even though it is a welcome back. I usually get “hello newbie” which is annoying.
You are right about the old days. I noticed a lot more was tolerated after 9/11 when the Duke Nukem crowd started going wild on here. Now, after my absence of a couple of years, I discover tinfoilers may outnumber the nuke Mecca gang! I don’t want to see all speculation shot down, but if this is allowed to go too far too often, the reputation of the site will suffer. And I do love FR!
And my eyes will get bleary from skipping over tinfoil posts while trying to keep up with a thread, too.
I’m still in the process of coming to terms with how bad it really is, so I defer to your assessment. Your posts have been solid and rational, your patience monumental. I’m impressed.
I have not seen the movie. I agree that Hagar was serving in the role as Sarah’s handmaiden. However, she was purchased in Egypt for that purpose.
I've been reading FR since '97 and joined almost a year later.
Those of us who know what FR used to be like, are concerned by what is now being allowed. You must be dizzy from the change. It's almost as if Eschoir and Arator and ASH ALERTS and A+Bert's "THE WALK ON THE MOON WAS A FAKE" threads were the norm, now.
Thank you for your kind words. :-)
Unlike most of the people who are being paranoid about the damned Islamonazi terrorists, I knew people who were murdered on 9/11. My daughter worked in a building, at that time, that was supposed to have been another terror target. And no, I don't understand their knee-jerk reaction to the VT Massacre.Wow, I don't think anyone realized your daughter almost could have maybe been a victim on 9/11. Well of course that makes you a terrorism expert then. We bow to your authority and wisdom. Carry on with your condescension.
The book was better than the movie. :-)
I never said nor implied that that made me an "expert" on terrorism. That you are incapable of understanding what I meant, you have proved just what I did say and infer, in my previous post. Thank you, thank you..... :-)
It’s far worse than being out of shape. It’s criminal negligence to me.
‘Protect and serve’, blah.. Who?
The entire chain of events is a like snowball turning into an avalanche. Towards the end it was getting out of control, but there would’ve been some hope if those cops have gone in first thing, it would’ve at least distracted him. Apparently he shot himself as soon as he was distracted after he settled down.
It’s a real black day for the USA’s police. Shameful.
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