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Darwin loses again
www.evolutionnews.org ^ | 4/13/07 | Michael Egnor

Posted on 04/17/2007 8:13:01 PM PDT by conmanning1

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To: conmanning1

“Perhaps Dr. Novella has data that show real evolutionary improvements in the brain caused by brain tumors. If he has, he should show us.”

If evolutionary theory predicted that brain tumors would lead to improvements in the brain, he might have a point.

Sort of a long screed to set up such a pathetic strawman.


21 posted on 04/17/2007 8:54:49 PM PDT by somniferum (Annoy a liberal.. Work hard and be happy.)
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To: elkfersupper

I posted it because I thought it was interesting. I’m familiar with the common arguments back and forth - irreducible complexity, not enough time for evolution, etc. This is a new one I’d never heard before and I wanted to hear other people’s thoughts on it. If you think it’s a crap idea, I’d rather have you explain why than have you just call it drivel and insult my “faith.”


22 posted on 04/17/2007 8:55:44 PM PDT by conmanning1
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To: conmanning1
This guy's a neurosurgeon at Yale. Beat that Darwin!

The neurosurgeon quoted in the article supports Darwin. Although, the way you have removed the formatting of the blockquotes, it may be hard to see that.

23 posted on 04/17/2007 8:57:26 PM PDT by Caesar Soze
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To: HisKingdomWillAbolishSinDeath
the fact we can’t find anything close to Earth anywhere in the Universe.

You need to study a bit more astronomy. The fact that we haven't seen any earth like planets is because of optics, not because they're not there. If we were sitting on a planet around another near by star, we would not be able to see the Earth with our existing equipment.

24 posted on 04/17/2007 9:00:47 PM PDT by narby
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To: conmanning1
You mean this guy from the Discovery Institute?
25 posted on 04/17/2007 9:00:53 PM PDT by <1/1,000,000th%
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To: RussP; Getready
"Also you shouldn’t use the term “theoretical” since the root word is “theos”(i.e. God).."

"I didn’t know that. The potential implications are quite interesting."

Probably because it is not true.

Theory
1592, "conception, mental scheme," from L.L. theoria (Jerome), from Gk. theoria "contemplation, speculation, a looking at, things looked at," from theorein "to consider, speculate, look at," from theoros "spectator," from thea "a view" + horan "to see." Sense of "principles or methods of a science or art (rather than its practice)" is first recorded 1613. That of "an explanation based on observation and reasoning" is from 1638. The verb theorize is recorded from 1638."
26 posted on 04/17/2007 9:00:56 PM PDT by ndt
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To: conmanning1
I’d rather have you explain why than have you just call it drivel and insult my “faith.”

I should have known better to post to one of these medieval fear threads, but occasionally I find it irresistible.

I'm sure you are strong in your faith.

The whole argument over Darwin as the antichrist is just misdirected.

27 posted on 04/17/2007 9:00:59 PM PDT by elkfersupper
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To: ndt
Doctors...never use evolutionary biology in their practice.

Whaddaya know. You can actually have a productive career in a science-based field like medicine without finding evolution useful. But...but...surely this can't be. Fanatical devotees of evolution have told us repeatedly, right here on FR, that teaching of evolution, even at the middle school level, is absolutely necessary, because it is "basic science," "absolutely fundamental," and we will sink into technological backwardness if we don't.

28 posted on 04/17/2007 9:02:28 PM PDT by hellbender
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To: HisKingdomWillAbolishSinDeath
Another thing that makes Darwin so preposterous is the fact we can’t find anything close to Earth anywhere in the Universe. And we never will because God said he created “the Heavens and the Earth (singular).

Hope it will be OK with you if I clarify something. Evolutionary theory does not address creation of the Heavens and Earth. That is not its goal.

Biological evolution is commonly defined as followed:

change in the frequency of alleles in a gene pool from one generation to the one that follows it.

29 posted on 04/17/2007 9:07:24 PM PDT by freespirited (Resentment, redistribution, and re-education. The three Rs of liberalism.)
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To: hellbender

Yeah, and isn’t it ironic that our utterly pathetic public schools teach evolution religiously, whereas many academically high-performing Christian schools teach creation. (I’m not claiming that I believe in literal biblical creation; I am merely stating an observed fact.)


30 posted on 04/17/2007 9:08:58 PM PDT by RussP
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To: ndt

Your post does not say that that the word “theory” does not derive from “theo” or “God.” What is your source?

Also, what does “L.L. theoria (Jerome)” mean?


31 posted on 04/17/2007 9:13:42 PM PDT by RussP
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To: conmanning1
Actually, all I did was ask a question: how much biologically relevant information can Darwin’s mechanism of chance and necessity actually generate? I didn’t settle for hand-waving or for reassurances that "Darwin’s theory is a fact." I wanted a measurement of biological complexity, with empirical verification, in a way that was meaningful to biology. I never got an answer to my question.

Uh, excuse me, but it's the "Intelligent Design" crowd who claim that they can measure that. Take it up with them.

32 posted on 04/17/2007 9:13:46 PM PDT by Physicist
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To: hellbender
"You can actually have a productive career in a science-based field like medicine without finding evolution useful."

I assume his career doesn't require a good grasp of Early American History either. Do you think we should remove that too?
33 posted on 04/17/2007 9:15:52 PM PDT by ndt
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To: Caesar Soze

No. The neurologist supports Darwin. The neurosurgeon wrote the article. “Although, the way you have removed the formatting of the blockquotes, it may be hard to see that.” I didn’t edit at all, just cut and pasted. You should read more carefully. It’s really not hard to see it. Again, why doesn’t anyone explain why it’s wrong?


34 posted on 04/17/2007 9:16:50 PM PDT by conmanning1
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To: conmanning1

Some people are so beguiled by the obvious—the flux of things—that they ignore how fixed things generally are. Books that are copied down a thousand different times remain subantially the same. We know how Aristotle thought, even though that thought came, not from him buty from his students. Thought has a certain fixity, because the “structure” of it must be respected, and too many changes simply destroy it, make it meaningless. A cancer is meaningless life.


35 posted on 04/17/2007 9:18:10 PM PDT by RobbyS ( CHIRHO)
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To: RussP
"What is your source?"

I'm using Etymology Online

"Also, what does “L.L. theoria (Jerome)” mean?"

I think that L.L. is Late Latin and theoria being the word in Latin and Jerome a reference to another source, but double check the key at the website to be sure.
36 posted on 04/17/2007 9:19:19 PM PDT by ndt
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To: RussP
I just double checked. L.L. is "Late Latin, the literary Latin language as spoken and written c.300-c.700."
37 posted on 04/17/2007 9:20:22 PM PDT by ndt
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To: Caesar Soze

Sorry. I just re-read it. The way it came out, it’s not that clear. The whole article was written by Dr. Egnor, the neurosurgeon. The guy he quotes is a neurologist collegue of his. None of it is mine.


38 posted on 04/17/2007 9:20:26 PM PDT by conmanning1
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To: ndt

Quite possible that Earth is unique. But since we are afraid of death, we are afraid of being alone, of the idea that we are alone in the universe, that all the worlds except ours is dead. Having banished spirits, we are left to long for visits from men from “Mars”. We turn our instruments to the skies and look, and listen, and long for familiar sights and sounds.


39 posted on 04/17/2007 9:22:28 PM PDT by RobbyS ( CHIRHO)
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To: conmanning1; Caesar Soze
It is a little confusing.

Dr. Steven Novella is from Yale, is the person being interviewed and is part of the Grand Darwinian Conspiracy.

Dr. Michael Egnor is a professor of neurosurgery and pediatrics at State University of New York and is a fighter for truth justice and spreading propaganda for the the Discovery Institute.
40 posted on 04/17/2007 9:31:25 PM PDT by ndt
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