You say,” I fail to see why you persist in actively criticizing the Church.”
Well, fair is fair. I’ve been criticized for years by family members and other members of the Mormon Church. Just this afternoon I am characterized as “apostate”, a term that has a rather derogatory connotation.
This, thread is all about the perception of Mormonism. Just as you are here to defend your religion, I am here to show that there is another side that the Mormons would rather hide.
The fact is that I see the LDS religion as based on lies, and the lies are so apparent to anyone who takes an honest look, that in my opinion, anyone who believes in it has simply been duped.
Now, we have a candidate for president who, if what I propose in the previous paragraph is true. Is either a dupe or dishonest. Not to mention, he’s a RINO.
For me the Mormon Church has been a source of great unhappiness and grief. When this subject cropped up on FR ,I felt it was my duty to show that the image the church puts forth is not what the reality, at least from my experience, proves out to be.
Think, Tantiboh, if you were not a Mormon, and you saw a person running for president that you thought was either dishonest or gullible and did not represent your political beliefs, and belonged to a religion that you had good reason to believe was false, would you not speak out?
Now, I’ve bared a good portion of my soul to folks on this thread. While I compose my next response, I’d like to hear from you what your personal history is and what you consider a simple testimony? Is it just a feeling or do you have more to go on than that? Please be specific.
Sure, I didn’t ask for your history in the first place, but I don’t mind sharing.
“Tantiboh” is a moosh of “tanti,” Italian for “many” and “boh,” a rather uneducated Italian slang term that roughly translates to “I don’t know.” Mostly just a handle I came up with on the fly when I didn’t know what else to type.
My mother was raised in the Church; my father wasn’t. He joined at 18 when they were married. They moved to Wyoming to take over the ranch where I grew up and promptly went inactive. I have two brothers and three sisters.
When I was about 7, my mother started going back to church, and I tagged along. My father started attending again when I was 10 or so. I was baptized at 8 the same day as my sister, who was 12.
My parents have improved a great deal over the years; my father used to be angry and short-tempered, and my mother struggled with this and had her own foibles. I directly attribute the Gospel with helping them both to improve. Still, my younger years do have some unpleasant memories as a result of some of their mistakes.
I did the “good Mormon boy” thing growing up, Eagle Scout, all that. But I was just kind of going with the flow. Finally, at 19, I served as an LDS missionary in Rome.
While I thought and hoped it was true beforehand, my mission was where I truly gained my testimony of the Church. Studying it day by day, and working in its service gave the Spirit room to confirm its truthfulness to me. I began to understand the importance of following its precepts and working to implement Christ’s teachings in my life day by day.
Unlike some, who relate experiences of sudden inner knowledge of the truth of the Gospel, my own certainty was built step by step, piece by piece, questioning everything and learning about it and trying it out until it made sense. That process continues. But I am satisfied that I am in the right place. The Gospel brings me key points of knowledge, such as an understanding of what the purpose of life is, my relationship with God, etc. that I treasure and feel very blessed to have.
The happiness derived therefrom prompts me to seek ways to invite others to share the same joy. When I live my life as I should, I can feel the Holy Ghost in my life, and I know that God is pleased with me. It’s a source of comfort that forms an anchor in my life. Likewise, when I’m not living as I should, the Lord lets me know it, and I have the opportunity to improve. That way, I’m never left in the dark, groping my way through life without comprehension of why I’m doing so.
Along the way, my faith has been shaped and built by amazing experiences; answered prayers; even miracles of healing and other miracles in my life and the lives of those around me that are too private and precious to share lightly. In short, God operates directly in my life, and it’s a powerful confirmation of what I believe.
I have taken the career route of computer programming, because I’m exceedingly good at learning new, unfamiliar concepts and logically analyzing a given problem, as well as integrating the detail within the context of the big picture. I am also blessed with a powerful intelligence. I use both gifts constantly to monitor, question, refine, and even refute my beliefs, as well as to teach others where the opportunity arises. Though it takes a lot of work, I can be convinced I’m wrong. No one and nothing has managed to do so when it comes to the fundamentals of the Gospel and my faith in the nature of the LDS Church.
If I have been lied to, then it is God who is the liar. If I have been duped, then God is the fraud, because I know what I know from the confirming voice of the Spirit. Not because I’m taking someone at their word.
“Think, Tantiboh, if you were not a Mormon, and you saw a person running for president that you thought was either dishonest or gullible and did not represent your political beliefs, and belonged to a religion that you had good reason to believe was false, would you not speak out?”
Nope. Religion should not be a factor. Moral character, political ideals, and personal courage are among those things which should be considered, but religion is not.
Think of it this way, LR. From my perspective, there has never been a president who has belonged to the church that I believe is the correct one. Yet I do not rail against Episcopalians, Methodists, or Catholics when one is elected; neither would I rail against a Jew, a Muslim, or an atheist. Perhaps their religious creed would affect their politics in a way I didn’t like; then I would rail against those points of political disagreement. But there are good people that ascribe to every religious belief, and I would judge a presidential candidate against that yardstick.
A simple testimony, to answer another question of yours, is just a statement of what I believe is true (speaking specifically of spiritual matters). If it is the truth, and the person is prepared to receive it, then the Holy Ghost will bear witness to that person. After that, it is given to the person to choose whether or not to heed that witness. My only role is to give the Holy Ghost a chance to operate.
When I do so, it is not entirely selfless. The Holy Ghost also confirms to me the truth of what I speak, and my testimony is enlarged as a result.
Please see post 878 in response to a question very similar to the final one you posed to me.
“Not to mention, he’s a RINO.”
I disagree. I’m not entirely convinced of his politics - my yardstick is pretty far to the right - but I think labeling Romney as a RINO is inaccurate. He was a governor of a (wildly) liberal state, but did a pretty fine job of stemming the tide against a powerful opposition.
My biggest concern with Romney is his stance on abortion. In my mind, he should have been pro-life all along, and his recent “conversion” has me a little uncomfortable. Still, genuine conversions happen (Reagan’s shift to pro-life, for example), and I tend to be willing to give Romney the benefit of the doubt. If a true rock-ribbed conservative were to pop up, I’d be a very likely backer. None of the “big three” qualify, but Romney is the closest.
One thing I admire about Romney is that everything he touches seems to turn to gold. He understands business, administration, and fiscal policy incredibly well - he promises to be an amazing president from that angle. I don’t know very much about his foreign policy, though I like what little I’ve heard.
But your whole premise for leaving the Church is build all on subjective experience and I am sure in the course of time a need to rationalized to your family.
I am sure you may sincerely felt justified.
What I am trying to say from my observation of your post the situtation you were in was not healthy and I don't blame you.
But in all honesty how many times did you read the Book of Mormon for your own council and I don't mean with a fault finding heart!
If you think you can do a thing or think you can't do a thing, you're right. Henry Ford
How many times as a child did you on your own or had a desire to you kneel and pray to your Heavenly Father in Jesus Name?
You don't need to reply just food for thought!