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To: nowandlater; PGalt; sevenbak; DelphiUser; restornu; colorcountry; cpforlife.org; Coleus; ...
You asked of another poster: "... please relate to me as a true believer why the literal translation of God in Genesis is Eloheim or the plural form of God with both sexes (male and female) emphasized in Hebrew? What is the true believer’s explanation for this if we take the translation literal?" With assistance dug from the pages of 'Yada Yada Yahweh' I will endeavor to address that request.

Jesus had a body, a soul, and a 'set-apart' spirit. The 'set apart' spirit is the Hebrew Language feminine component of the name Eloheim (actually Elohiym) with which you are struggling, not a female personage with whom God The Father Almighty mated to conceive Jesus. [If you would like further exegesis of this terminology, I'll post it for you.]

It was the 'set apart' spirit which Jesus had depart from Him at the crucifixion so that His soul could descend into hell. It was also the 'set-apart' spirit which raised Him from the grave by calling Him forth and soon after rejoined with His soul, as witnessed by the admonishment give to Mary not to touch Him at the tomb because He was not yet 'ascended'. Ascension in this tomb-setting scene speaks of restoration to a state of Glory, not a location to be traveled to ... beside the tomb, Jesus still had the 'stink of death to the body and torment of hell to the soul' upon him, not yet fully restored with the 'set-apart' spirit of God The Father Almighty'. But this state of transition is accomplish quickly because with His next appearance He welcomes touch and asks for food.

Jesus and the Father are one, not to be defined as two separate people, but part of the Triune nature of the Creator and sovereign of the universe and all that is, was, or will be. Let's examine that a bit further since this visionary mischaracterization of two people permeates Joseph Smith's supposed vision(s) of God and Jesus and has been misconstrued in the vision of Stephen at his stoning when he 'saw Heaven opened' and Jesus positioned to the 'right hand' of the Glory of God The Father Almighty'.

In the 14th Chapter of John's gospel, we read of a physics lesson given to Philip ['All you can see of the Father is what you see in me, for I am in the Father and the Father in Me']. Further, we have Jesus's own clarifications as to the meaning of this physics lesson.

In John 14 we have Yahushua (Jesus) saying: "Let not your heart be anxious or troubled. Trust God. Rely on Me. In My Father’s family and home there are many dwelling places. If it were not so, I would have told you. For I go from one place to another (poreuomai - transfer, and depart from life) to prepare and make ready for (hetoimazo - to make necessary preparations; to condition and ready people by way of resolution for) passage to this place and position (topos). And when I go from one place to another, departing from this life (poreuomai) to accomplish the necessary preparations to condition and ready people by way of resolution (hetoimazo) for passage to this place and position (topos), I will come forth again to renew (palin) and receive you (paralambano - taking you in to join Me, bringing you to My side, welcoming you) to Myself, that where I Am (eimi - I exist and am present), there you may be also. ...Yahushua said, I Am the Way, the Truth, and the Life. No one comes to (erchomai - arises and appears before) the Father but through (dia - by way of) Me. If you know (ginosko - recognize, acknowledge, experience, and understand) Me, you belong to the home and family (oikeios - household and dwelling place) of the Father also. And now, at this very moment (arti - at this time and place) you are familiar with and know Him and have seen Him with your eyes." (John 14:1-6) Seeing Jesus they saw the Father as best their limited physical and spiritual limitations could see such an being.

But we are to understand that God the Father Almighty is so much more than we are able to perceive in Jesus though God is in Jesus and Jesus in the Father:

Psalm 88 begins with the three most important names in creation: "Yahuweh ‘Elohiym Yashuw’ah." (Psalm 88:1) Yahuweh is ‘Elohiym/God as is Yahushua, the diminished manifestation of Yahuweh in human form. The reason that Yahushua is the diminished form of Yahuweh, the reason Yahshua follows Yahuweh in this verse, is because Yahshua said it was so. I and the Father are One. (John 10:29-30) Yahshua would later clarify this: The Father is greater in dimensions, mass, power and stature (megas) than I. (John 14:28) The reason that Yahshua is a reduced form of Yahuweh is because the Father’s undiminished presence would incinerate the earth and evaporate mankind. A power great enough to provide matter sufficient to form the universe would be comprised of energy equivalent to an infinite quantity of hydrogen bombs, a hundred of which would extinguish all life as we know it. For us to know God, for us to see God, for us to experience God, while still in our mortal bodies, God must manifest Himself in a form we can observe without dying and relate to without our senses being overwhelmed. Yahshua was a much God as would fit into a finite, three dimensional, human construct.

God the Father took flesh upon Himself, limiting Himself for a time, for our needed Salvation. Jesus walked the Earth with an indwelling 'set-apart' spirit which He set aside at crucifixion so that He could redeem us from our natural fate of dissolution of soul and body. The Salvation comes to each of believers, those trusting in Him for their Salvation, by the coming in to our human spirit of the 'set-apart' spirit which imparts LIFE to the lifeless soul of humankind. ONLY one come from the source of such LIFE could impart such Grace to us.

237 posted on 04/08/2007 1:24:12 PM PDT by MHGinTN (If you've had life support. Promote life support for others.)
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To: MHGinTN

Wow, I must say that I am impressed, I may have to reconsider the undermatched comment above. That said, what a needlessly complex theory you have come up with. Have you heard of Occam’s razor? (http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/occam’s%20razor ) Basically when two explanations explain something equally well, the simplest is true.

Your explanation above cannot possibly be proven wrong because of the number of assumptions that are not of mortal realm. This ‘set apart’ spirit is not to be found anywhere in the bible in this form, but you interpret scriptures to say that anyway.

How about John 17 (the great intercessitory prayer) (http://scriptures.lds.org/en/john/17)

11 And now I am no more in the world, but these are in the world, and I come to thee. Holy Father, keep through thine own name those whom thou hast given me, that they may be bone, as we are.

21 That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me.

22 And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, even as we are one:

23 I in them, and thou in me, that they may be made perfect in one; and that the world may know that thou hast sent me, and hast loved them, as thou hast loved me.

I quote these scriptures because these are Jesus Christ’s own words. Here he draws a simile (http://dictionary.reference.com/search?r=2&q=simile) between his relationship with the father, and his disciples’ relationship with him. He also draws a simile with his oneness with God and their oneness.

Now everyone knows the disciples did not join together like some pre-technology transformer into a giant super apostle, but joined in heart might mind and strength. The apostles were united in their love for each other and for their fellow man. They sacrificed themselves when necessary for their fellow man, this union they felt with each other and with Christ transformed them. This is the oneness that Jesus is comparing with his oneness with God the father. This is not my analogy; it is Jesus Christ’s analogy. He whose servant I am made this comparison, and I dare not deny that which I have received a testimony of from him. This is what Mormons believe when the scriptures speak of the oneness of God. The word God can be used to mean any one member of the God head, or all three together. If this simple interpretation of oneness is considered your explanation is complex and obviously the construct of man. Jesus himself said it, how can I but believe him?

When I am faced with choosing between God’s word and yours, I hope you will not feel slighted when I go with the Word of God. I hope should I ever say anything that contradicts the word of God, you will also choose his word over mine.

Go with God.


241 posted on 04/08/2007 4:03:02 PM PDT by DelphiUser ("You can lead a man to knowledge, but you can't make him think")
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To: MHGinTN
What would a spirit/Spirit need with gender?..
I can think no reason for that to be so..
Human bodies need spirit to reproduce by DNA(rna)..
Do spirits/Spirts have DNA(rna)?..
I can see no reason for that to be so either..

Gender is probably an earthly need for this planet, for a time/age/eon....
Spirits/spirts probably have no need for gender or DNA..
Human language, qualia and mental constructs can require it though..

243 posted on 04/08/2007 4:53:22 PM PDT by hosepipe (CAUTION: This propaganda is laced with hyperbole....)
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To: MHGinTN; nowandlater; PGalt; sevenbak; DelphiUser; restornu; colorcountry; cpforlife.org; Coleus; ..

In the spirit of the day, I’m in favor of puting aside our theological differences, and come together, at least temporarily, to acknowledge that we all believe that He has risen, that he atoned for our sins, that He is literally the Son of God, and shall come again!

God bless you all on this Easter Sunday!

Sevenbak


244 posted on 04/08/2007 4:59:41 PM PDT by sevenbak
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To: MHGinTN

Want to tackle more of my ideas of theology?

YHWH, has been translated as “I AM. I AM” which we also see in the account where Jehovah talks to Moses and tells him who he is. Now, why is the statement “I AM. I AM” so important. Is there a deeper meaning? In Hebrew, YHWH, is the male verb form of “I AM” found in “YH”, plus it is the femal verb form of “I AM”. Also, it does not exactly mean “I AM”, it is more like “I HAVE BEEN AND I AM BECOMING”. Sounds strange yes? In my opinion, if you studied the literal meaning of the word JEHOVAH and ELOHIM, you will find a lot meaning.


247 posted on 04/08/2007 5:54:07 PM PDT by nowandlater (Romney-Thompson 2008)
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