"Plan for Muslim prayer in Senate angers some"

Houston Chronicle ^ | April 3, 2007 | R.G. RATCLIFFE

[pillut48]

"AUSTIN — The first prayer ever by a Muslim cleric in the Texas Senate will be delivered today — outraging some conservatives because it is occurring just before Easter. The invocation will be delivered by the Imam Yusuf Kavakci of the Dallas Central Mosque at the invitation of state Sen. Florence Shapiro, R-Plano. Shapiro is Jewish."

[so_real]

Hello Marlowe! Good to hear from you again. In your sentence you mixed "there are", "the Old Testament", and "should be given". You have a past/present/future tense issue that is the foundation for a good debate on the time of vengeance and the time of redemption in religious history.

But I do respect the opinion you have voiced. As always you are entirely reasonable and logical. I would not, however, condone equal access, or even being respectful of, non-Judeo Christian prayer in our places of justice and law-making. God does not consider any other god equal to Himself; He has warned us against prayer to other gods; and has voiced the penalty for being "lukewarm", better to be hot or cold. Furthermore, if ever there was a place where God's blessing was 'needed' it would in our places of justice and law-making.

You say: "Whether or not God hears that prayer or answers that prayer is God's business."

I say: "Prayer time is valuable time -- why waste it where it does us no good?"

[firewalk]

I don't think there should be prayer in the senate...any senate. jmo here
Meanwhile, I'd like to be notified when Wicca is there
or the satanists...
& most especially when the atheists come by to give their pep talk...

[Eva]

I think that my daughter did an internship for that woman. Even her own staff hated her.

[Thombo2]

Invited by a republican who’s also a Jew?Sometimes i just have to scratch my head and ask myself why some so called “republicans” can be so DUMB!

[P-Marlowe]

I would not, however, condone equal access, or even being respectful of, non-Judeo Christian prayer in our places of justice and law-making.

If we do not grant Hindus and Bhuddist and Muslims prayers in our senate chambers, then neither should we allow Christian or Jewish prayers in that Chamber. Congress is prohibited from creating a state religion and if we only allow Christian prayers in the Senate Chamber, then Congress will have established a religion in clear violation of the first amendment.

Further the Constitution provides that there shall be no religious test for public office. Thus the religious liberty of all Americans must be protected and if access to the halls of congress is granted to Christians, it must also be granted to every other faith that is represented in Congress. As it stands right now, at least one state was stupid enough to send a Muslim to be their representative and thus, it would be a violation of the constitution to prohibit his religion from having a voice that is granted to other religions.

Religious liberty is a road with many forks. We must be free to take any one of them and we must not be afraid to let others choose their own paths.

[Nathan Zachary]

"I have pursued mine enemies, and overtaken them: neither did I turn again till they were consumed. I have wounded them that they were not able to rise: they are fallen under my feet. For thou hast girded me with strength unto the battle: thou hast subdued under me those that rose up against me. Thou hast also given me the necks of mine enemies; that I might destroy them that hate me. They cried, but there was none to save them: even unto the LORD, but he answered them not. Then did I beat them small as the dust before the wind: I did cast them out as the dirt in the streets. (Psalms 18:37-42 KJV)

No figure out who said that(which king) and why, what is the setting for this story.

It's not a comandment form GOD to kill, unlike Islams god (ilah) named "allah" commands muslims to kill. Unless you are daft, islams god is NOT the same as the Christian Jewish one.

Love they enemies.
You are taking that competely out of context. It doesn't say turn a cheek to invading armies. That is instruction for living in a civilized society, not battlefield edict against invading armies.

There is only ONE TIME in the OT where God commanded that the Jews wipe out a tribe,(They were probably the forfathers of Satans Islam) which they NEVER followed. Your other assertions are BS.

[P-Marlowe]

No figure out who said that(which king) and why, what is the setting for this story. (sic)

Now way, huh?

To the chief Musician, A Psalm of David, the servant of the LORD, who spoke unto the LORD the words of this song in the day that the LORD delivered him from the hand of all his enemies, and from the hand of Saul: And he said, I will love thee, O LORD, my strength. (Psalms 18:1 KJV)

Your other assertions are BS.

Well, that certainly ends the debate.

Have a nice day.

[jude24]

It's not a comandment form GOD to kill, unlike Islams god (ilah) named "allah" commands muslims to kill.

When the Lord your God brings you into the land that you are entering to take possession of it, and clears away many nations before you, the Hittites, the Girgashites, the Amorites, the Canaanites, the Perizzites, the Hivites, and the Jebusites, seven nations more numerous and mightier than yourselves, 2 and when the Lord your God gives them over to you, and you defeat them, then you must devote them to complete destruction. You shall make no covenant with them and show no mercy to them.

Gee, the Bible promotes Genocide. Let's ban Christianity.

By contrast, the Qu'aran teaches saving one life is most noble act (5:32, 6:151). Muslims tell me that the war-like verses in the Qu'aran are to be understood as a defensive war - you can repel an aggressor fiercely, but not take on non-combatants. Frankly, I get irritated when non-Christians try to tell me what I believe. I extend the same courtesy (letting Muslims define what they believe) to them.

[Tolsti]

“Thank you. Replace the word “Muslim” in this thread with “Jewish” or “Catholic” and we’re right back in the 30’s.”

Congrats, you just lost the argument. You violated Godwin’s law, completely unwittingly I’m sure. You are comparing anti-islamic sentiment today to the Nazi movement.

Again, thanks for trying.

[so_real]

Sura 42-114: When ye encounter the infidels, strike off their heads till ye have made a great slaughter among them, and of the rest make fast the fetters.

"defensive war" ... "not take on non-combatants"? It's for sale, but I'm not buying it :-)

[jude24]

That verse was in a unique situation, specifically, Mecca, which had not only expelled Muhammad, but sought to execute him for teaching Islam. Or so the argument goes.

It's no less violent than Deut. 7.

[jude24]

Congrats, you just lost the argument. You violated Godwin’s law, completely unwittingly I’m sure. You are comparing anti-islamic sentiment today to the Nazi movement.

A better parallel would be the anti-Catholic rhetoric of the 1800's-1960's.

[so_real]

The very first Supreme Court Justice John Jay said

"Providence has given to our people the choice of their rulers, and it is the duty, as well as the privilege and interest of our Christian nation to select and prefer Christians for their rulers."

True that there is no religious test for office or state established religion ... there was, however, a degree of common sense that pervaded that era of American history that is lost to us today. Our founders understood duties and privileges far better than we do. I'm not afraid of which path another's religious freedom takes him -- I'm afraid of allowing him to drag our nation (by the nose hairs of government office) down his path against our founders' better common sense.

[Darnright]

>at the invitation of state Sen. Florence Shapiro, R-Plano. Shapiro is Jewish.

She did this at Passover? Sheesh!

[Tolsti]

Maybe they deserved it? The inquisition stuff wasn’t so nice. If an idealogy or religion gets out of control, it needs to be put into control or eliminated. Otherwise it’ll destroy everything it touches.

Haven’t we learned this enough throughout history?

[jude24]

The inquisition stuff wasn’t so nice.

Firstly, most scholars today think the excesses of the Inquisition were exaggerated by Protestant pamphleteers. Secondly, the Protestants committed their share of atrocities in the Reformation-era wars. I say this as a Reformed Christian.

[Centurion2000]

WTF?? You know those sandrats planned it for Good Friday

[Ace of Spades]

I said nothing about Nazis. I meant 1930’s America.

Try again.

[Centurion2000]

We most certainly are not at war with Islam

Like hell we aren't. You haven't read the Koran. They are doing EXACTLY what their book told them to do.

[Ace of Spades]

Yes, that’s exactly what I meant. My own (Protestant) grandparents, Democrats to the core, refused to vote for Jack Kennedy in 1960 because they just knew he was taking orders from the Vatican. They weren’t alone.

That ignorance lives on now, it’s just moved on to new targets.