Will auld acquaintance be forgot as Scots go it alone?

The Times (London, UK) ^ | March 31, 2007 | Martin Fletcher

[Jack_Macca]

My friend, and anyone else reading this, I think calling the present people of Scotland, Ireland and the Ukraine the “dregs” speaks for itself.

It suggests that those who were forced to or decided to emigrate from (which happens in every nation still - even from Canada) as somehow being genetically superior to those who did not travel is racialism.

You are almost certainly NOT a racist, but that is what you are meaning. Don’t get all high and mighty. You insulted first.

Two things:

1. The Scottish “dregs” you mentioned created such things as Penicillin, modern antiseptics, radar, the MRI scanner, TV, pneumatic tyre, pedal bike and the first cloned animal.

2. Don’t think for a minute you are Scottish. I know for a fact that real Scots would laugh at the very suggestion.

[GMMAC]

With their similarly bloody hands, an Englishman (or one of their toadies) has no more moral right to pontificate as to "real" Scots than a Russian has to opine on matters to do with Ukrainians.

Why? Because, quite plainly, both the English & Russians are cut from the same cloth & guilty of committing acts of genocide against their neighbors: not somewhere back in the mists of time but, well within living memory.

Both share the same imagined sense of superiority and related, seemingly compulsive, need to lord it over those around them whom they deem to be their inferiors.

Listing Scots' inventions only confirms the delusion of England's imperial fantasies & attendant rationalizations.

The records of accomplishment of Scottish & Ukrainian expatriates who refused to live under foreign tyranny speak for themselves & stand in marked contrast to the dysfunctional, morally bankrupt, socialistic hellholes which their nations of origin have now become.

Surely the Scots before the Clearances would have given short shift to anti-family (anti-Clan) Marxist claptrap like attempting to outlaw the terms "mother" & "father" and more recent authentic Ukrainian patriots, like Bandera & Sheptytsky, wouldn't now be engaged in the sort of petty squabbles which amount to effectively throwing away hard won independence & putting out a de facto welcome mat for the Russians' return?

[Jack_Macca]

With their similarly bloody hands, an Englishman (or one of their toadies) has no more moral right to pontificate as to "real" Scots than a Russian has to opine on matters to do with Ukrainians.

Who mentioned the English?

Why? Because, quite plainly, both the English & Russians are cut from the same cloth & guilty of committing acts of genocide against their neighbors: not somewhere back in the mists of time but, well within living memory.

I don't particularly care about the Russians, but suggesting the English committed genocide (presumably against the Scots) is so laughable as to be dangerous. Do you even know what genocide is?

Both share the same imagined sense of superiority and related, seemingly compulsive, need to lord it over those around them whom they deem to be their inferiors.

I think you are generalising a bit too much here. From distance and myths come ignorance. The English people are not different from anyone else. Some good, some bad - unless you are getting into your racial and genetic theories again.

Listing Scots' inventions only confirms the delusion of England's imperial fantasies & attendant rationalizations.

Eh? How does showing your Scottish "dregs" creating so much for humanity have anything to do with England?

The records of accomplishment of Scottish & Ukrainian expatriates who refused to live under foreign tyranny speak for themselves & stand in marked contrast to the dysfunctional, morally bankrupt, socialistic hellholes which their nations of origin have now become.

Erm who is the Queen of Canada? This foreign tyranny you talk about is nonsense. If you had any sense of history (real history, not mytholigise tartan rubbish) then you would know that the people of the British Isles have ALWAYS fought each other, English killing Scots, Scots killing English, Irish killing Scots, English killing Irish, Welsh fighting English, Scots and English fighting Scots and English and so on...

Again, your insistence that those who went to another place are somehow genetically superior to the "dregs" is just racialism, but also provably stupid.

I once met a pretty stupid Canadian, who came to Canada from Serbia during the Yugoslavian conflicts. Are you suggesting because he left Serbia to go to Canada that he is morally and genetically superior to those who did not?

Think how ridiculous that sounds? Scientifically there is no genetic difference between the Scots of Wallace or the Scots of today - but you are saying there is.

Maybe your mythology was hiding this from you, but you are claiming that those who left Scotland were genetically superior to those who did not. As if it was a big test and everyone had all the facts laid out. Far from being a rational choice of some ubermensch, it was in fact forced on many. Unless you are telling me every immigrant to the USA, Canada and Britain today are all genetically and morally superior to those in their native homes? A stupid point really now isn't it?

Surely the Scots before the Clearances would have given short shift to anti-family (anti-Clan) Marxist claptrap

I have to cut you short there! "Anti-Clan"? LOL. Only pretend Scots with North American accents who call themselves "Clan leader Mcshuggle" believe in all that nonsense. For example, these clans of yours have tartan right? If you do a bit of research you will find specific tartan for clans was a modern invention, invented by a clever Englishman of all people. The people wore old cloth, that's all that was made a specific way in one area. Stop watching Brigadoon for gawd's sake.

like attempting to outlaw the terms "mother" & "father"

I hope you don't mean this "attempt" happened in Scotland because you are scaring me with how little you know. It would be as laughable to do that in Scotland as in Canada. Where do you get this stuff?

and more recent authentic Ukrainian patriots, like Bandera & Sheptytsky, wouldn't now be engaged in the sort of petty squabbles which amount to effectively throwing away hard won independence & putting out a de facto welcome mat for the Russians' return?

Don't know or care about Russia or the Ukraine so I'll leave that to you.

On a conciliatory note I'll say one thing. There is nothing wrong in being proud of a Scottish ancestry, but if you don't make an attempt to understand Scotland as it is today, without myths of the ignorant and half-a-brained then you also fail to understand the past and who you are.

Have you ever been to Scotland? Do you know that far from being this marxist haven, the Capital city is a financial hub of the UK? That far from being under tyranny the English moan that Scots are running England. The UK cabinet is full of Scots. Tony Blair was born in Scotland and the next PM Gordon Brown is Scottish too. That Glasgow is second only to London in the number of big malls and stores it has. Your wife would love it.

I think your search for identity has led you down this path. Throughout history those scared to lose their identity grasp ever tighter and proclaim they are the chosen ones and the others are not worthy.

Like EVERY country Scotland has it's good and it's bad things, but if you embrace it you will discover an ancient, yet paradoxically, new nation finding it's feet again. You will find a robust yet very friendly people welcoming you. Far from this marxist myth you seem to have you will find an economic society not much different from your own.

Instead of hating a country that does not exist, why not go to it, learn about it and be a part of it. Far from dishonouring your Scottish ancestry you would fulfilling it.

[GMMAC]

First off - as you're new here, in the unlikely event you somehow last and with respect to inadvertent duplicate posts - hitting the "abuse" button below one or the other, explaining briefly you've erred & requesting Admin Mod removal of same is the appropriate remedial action.

Self-evident examples of genocide already alluded to would include in the aftermath of Culloden massacring wounded on the field of battle as well as tracking down & summarily executing legitimate as well as imagined participants for months afterward, the open 'ethnic cleansing' inherent in the Clearances and, more recently, countless events in Ireland including systemic mistreatment of the Catholic minority within still occupied Irish territory & sundry English "war crimes" following the 1916 "Easter Rising".

There are no better examples of English imagined superiority & related openly condescending bigotry & arrogant ingratitude than the first-hand accounts of Canadian, Australian, etc. WW1&2-era Veterans with which 'colonial' history books literally overflow!

Citing your Queen - for now - tacitly 'ruling' over Canada only makes my case since, along with your museums filled with German Nazi-like plunder, she's plainly a mere feudal relic and yet another pathetic vestige of a now rightly collapsed Empire.

See: Use of ‘Mom’ and ‘Dad’ Too “Homophobic”, Scottish Nurses Told ~ as posted on FR 02/16/2007 7:48:03 PM EST

While most Scots expatriates are well aware of the bogus 'histories' of many alleged Tartans, my own happens to be the oldest authenticated one & is well documented as being Clan specific for many centuries prior to the advent of Victorian-era forgeries come marketing scams.

Far from being ignorant of history as you'd contend, I'd refer you to Scotland's magnificent 1320 "Declaration of Arbroath" and it's ringing words foreshadowing Scots-American Patrick Henry's over 4 centuries later: "It is in truth not for glory, nor riches, nor honors that we are fighting, but for freedom - for that alone, which no honest man gives up but with life itself."
And remind you the histories of the Scots, Irish, Polish & Ukrainian peoples are much alike in the sense all had the misfortune of having an aggressive, relentlessly imperially-minded neighbor which refused to leave them alone or recognize their inherent right to self-determination and all were repeatedly sold-out by Quislings within their own elites.
Yet, somehow all have survived and it will now be quite interesting to see how well the English fare once they too are soon compelled to go it alone.

[Jack_Macca]

I tried to be conciliatory, but you are still rambling on about things you do not understand.

As for a supposed NHS document that says nurses haven’t to say “mom” and dad” well the giveaway should be that Scots don’t say “mom” anyway! :)

I will just say this. I am Scottish. I am in my land. I know my people and history and you as a foreigner do not.

soawayandbileyerheid

[GMMAC]

Dismissing point by point refutation as "rambling" puts us right back to your initial denial.

Further, flying the Union Jack on your FR homepage reveals you as being about as "Scottish" as England's bum-boy Tony Blair.

Incidentally, it continues to quite amaze me how so many self-proclaimed 'conservatives' go on cutting Blair seemingly overall slack solely on account of his - albeit fairly commendable - so far role in the WOT when he & his vile wife are quite plainly doing Marxist societal damage on the home front which would likely make Hillary Clinton proud.

Contrast Blair with expat stock leaders like George WALKER Bush, John Howard & even our own Stephen (Clan Buchanan) Harper.

[Jack_Macca]

Further, flying the Union Jack on your FR homepage reveals you as being about as "Scottish" as England's bum-boy Tony Blair.

Once again you talk about things you do not understand. FR only gives the Union Flag and considering the Union flag is the flag of Scotland, England and Ireland in one I don't see why I shouldn't. You probably didn't know that.

I don't need to prove I am Scottish my Canadian friend. Even if I didn't want to be I am. You are not and never will be.

[GMMAC]

Yawn ... suffice to say, the authentic Scots traditions are far more alive today in the worldwide diaspora than in Scotland:
As examples, there are definitely more pipe bands Stateside and quite likely more Gaelic speakers in the Cape Breton region of Nova Scotia - alone! - than in all of Scotland.

Your on-going assumptions as to my ignorance with respect to everything from FR homepages on down reveals precisely the well-know self-important arrogance of the English & their would-be sycophants.

[Jack_Macca]

Yawn ... suffice to say, the authentic Scots traditions are far more alive today in the worldwide diaspora than in Scotland: As examples, there are definitely more pipe bands Stateside and quite likely more Gaelic speakers in the Cape Breton region of Nova Scotia - alone! - than in all of Scotland.

People not Scottish are more Scottish than the Scots? Yes thats the funny words you just uttered!!! Bwahahaha! Pipe bands? Bwahahaha! You really don't know anything do you? I suppose the true Dutch wear clogs and only real Frenchmen wear Garlic and Berets! :D

Your on-going assumptions as to my ignorance with respect to everything from FR homepages on down reveals precisely the well-know self-important arrogance of the English & their would-be sycophants.

Your obsession with England seems slightly worrying my Canadian friend. You should be proud to be Canadian. Stop pretending to be Scottish. You are not and it's embarrassing. So:

Gonnae no dae that, jist gonnae no. :-D

[GMMAC]

Thought I'd see what you'd been up to - it anything & beyond your tiresome chirping above - while we adults on FR were busy posting articles, other comments, etc.

And, lo & behold!, I found this 'gem' :
"Yes Britain fought for two years against tyranny alone. (#19) ~ Jack_Macca

Aside from confirming ignorant liars (your own words: on this & other threads) love to use those terms in regard to others, the above comment more than proves true my earlier observation:

"There are no better examples of English imagined superiority & related openly condescending bigotry & arrogant ingratitude than the first-hand accounts of Canadian, Australian, etc. WW1&2-era Veterans with which 'colonial' history books literally overflow!"

NAILED !!!

[Jack_Macca]

Nailed at what? Again your obsession with England resurfaces. Neither of us are English so why keep bringing them up?

Plus, I don’t remember ever being disrespectful to Canada or the Anzacs ever. I have shown more respect for your country than you have for mine. Nearly every post being an insult against Scotland.

I would never deliberately insult Canada. A country I have more than an affection for. Loyal as ever and warriors never bettered during WW2.

Warriors who fought against a people who thought superiority was genetic. Ring a bell?

[GMMAC]

If there some particular word within your own ridiculous & insulting statement "Britain fought for two years against tyranny alone" that renders you somehow incapable of appreciating it's obvious arrogant slighting of the UK's 'Commonwealth' allies ???

"deliberately" ?
More like liberal-like denial & typical presumptuous British pomposity on autopilot.

[Jack_Macca]

So we have moved away from the fact of your other ramblings to this one now.

For someone who hates the British, you sure want our approval one way or another.

Anyway, as long as we have established you are not Scottish but a proud Canadian I am happy.

SCOTLAND FOREVER!

[fanfan]

Stephen (Clan Buchanan) Harper.

Really?

I didn't know that.

No wonder I love him!

[Constantine XIII]

Well, you are cavalierly throwing off on whole swathes of the globe without much explanation. People are going to be agitated.

And this is the intarweb.

Don't be surprised to hear about it. LOL!

[Constantine XIII]

Sorry, but this whole thread is a nuclear LOLocaust.

[GMMAC]

Apparently, simply ignoring your own slightingly ungrateful statement:

"Britain fought for two years against tyranny alone"

passes for reasoned debate wherever you're from ???

No one possessing a modicum of logic - let alone common decency! - would deem demanding proper acknowledgment of other nation's wartime sacrifices as seeking approval.

Anyone objectively following this thread with even minimal powers of comprehension can plainly determine you haven't established a single "fact" and, beyond engaging repeatedly in liberal-like denial, essentially 'argue' like someone's ex-wife.

[GMMAC]

Suggest you read my comment #37 & engage brain ... unless you've got no problem with this newb blowing off the self-evident fact of 2 years worth of numerous other nations' war dead.

[fanfan]

The biggest load of ignorant and racist rubbish I have ever read in my life.

Persecution of observation dismisses truth.

[Candor7]

People not Scottish are more Scottish than the Scots?>>>>>>>>>>>

A rudimentary understanding of history and a visit to Cape Breton in Nova Scotia ( New Scotland); Maxville,Glengarry County, Ontario;Caledonia County , Vermont and many other locations in America would surprise you into complete and utter denial.

The Scots diaspora is thought to be a myth in England,

" Why, once the Scots left Scotland they transformed impediment, into "non-Scots"?

Most British historians are still in denial over something called the " Highland Clearances" at the hands of the Duke of Cumberland.

The Scots way of life was transferred to the Americas despite Britain's every attempt to stamp it out. The British failed in that, much to the glory of Canada and the United States. Over half of the signers of the Constitution were Scots by culture if not in name.George Washington's mother was a Scot.

If you count the Sottish festivals in the United States and Canada, you will find that Scottish Americans attend them in the millions. And they are not put on for the purpose of attracting tourists, as many are in Scotland today. In America they are a celebration and a preservation of what Scottish Americans hold most dear: their clans and their freedom, for which many still fight and die through military service as their fathers did before them.

More genuine Scots live outside of Scotland than live inside Scotland. It is much the same with the Jews, more of them living outside of Israel than inside it, and a constant travel to the homeland to reconnect.

American Scots would love to see an independent Scotland, according to polls taken at Highland Games across America. And the Brits are still trying to stamp out Scottish culture; witness the drumming down of the Scottish regiments with the new "amalgamation" plan.