[Jack_Macca]

A totally misleading expert.

Britain is mothballing 30 year old harriers and pretend aircraft carriers for new planes and two REAL aircraft carriers.

It has also recently passed a vote in the Commons to upgrade the Nukes.

As for the 28th largest army and the implication of small military spending. Since when has the UK ever had a massive volunteer army? Also, the UK is the World's fifth largest Military spender.

Poor journalism.

[capt. norm]

Welcome to FR.

Correcting mistakes made by the media is one of the great things regularly done on this forum.

US media, as usual, got it wrong.

[Logical me]

How long ago was this upgrade authorized? And what has the past dozen or so years look like?

[AFreeBird]

Poor research on your part. Google brought this up at the top. From a London Telegraph article (think the folks in London might know a thing or two about it?)

Royal Navy commanders were in uproar yesterday after it was revealed that almost half of the Fleet's 44 warships are to be mothballed as part of a Ministry of Defence cost-cutting measure.

Sailors standing on the aircraft carrier HMS Invincible, which may never go to sea again

Senior officers have said the plans will turn Britain's once-proud Navy into nothing more than a coastal defence force.

The Government has admitted that 13 unnamed warships are in a state of reduced readiness, putting them around 18 months away from active service. Today The Daily Telegraph can name a further six destroyers and frigates that are being proposed for cuts.

A need to cut the defence budget by £250 million this year to meet spending requirements has forced ministers to look at drastic measures.

MoD sources have admitted it is possible that the Royal Navy will discontinue one of its major commitments around the world at a time when Sir Jonathon Band, the First Sea Lord, has said more ships are needed to protect the high seas against terrorism and piracy.

whole article

[LiberalBassTurds]

Don't confuse the Fred supporters with the facts. :-)

LBT
......

[capitalist229]

It has also recently passed a vote in the Commons to upgrade the Nukes.

Wrong. That was only a vote to begin a study of upgrading the nukes by 2021, it was not a vote for design or construction. Even then, Blair was fought at every turn by half of his own party as well as the Liberal party. If not for David Cameron and the conservatives the study would have been indefinitely postponed.

The UK is consumed by its struggle to support the national health service. A precursor of our own future under Medicare.

BUMP

[Tallguy]

Exactly. Britain is cutting it's "legacy force" in order to preserve its shipbuilding budget -- which includes 2 full-size conventional aircraft carriers. Plus they are clearing the decks to re-equip their naval airforce with F-35 Lightning II's (to fly off those same carriers).

We've done the same thing time & again. You accept some short-term risk to buy some long-term security.

[SampleMan]

A totally misleading expert.

Not at all. Grab a copy of defense weekly or go to the library and grab Janes weekly.

The Royal Navy is not only taking a huge hit right now, and stalling all officer promotions for two years, it has no immediate replacements. The aircraft carriers and aircraft of which you speak are respectively still on the drawing boards and still yet to be produced.

Best case scenario puts one underway in 10 years, and given French involvement, I'll put my money on one carrier of 35,000 tons in 15 years.

[kabar]

Sorry, Jack. But the UK is cutting back its defense spending.

From Royal Navy to coastal defence force

"Our status in the world, as well as the security of these islands, depends chiefly on sea power. For the better part of 500 years, England and then Britain inflicted crushing defeats on larger, wealthier and more populous nations because it controlled the main. For much of that period, indeed, foreign vessels had to dip their colours when passing our ships, in acknowledgement of our sovereignty of the seas."

"That chapter is to be closed. Of our 44 warships, at least 13, and possibly as many as 19, are to be taken out of active service. At present, we have a Navy with global reach. Our ships are present in the Mediterranean, the Caribbean, the South Atlantic and the Gulf, as well as closer to home. The Government's scheme would reduce the Fleet to little more than a coastal defence role. How have we come to this pass?

Defence spending is lowest since the 1930s

"Britain spends less of its wealth on defence than Bulgaria, Greece and Turkey despite the constant demands placed on its Armed Forces, official figures show."

"According to the Conservatives, defence spending as a proportion of the UK's gross domestic product is at its lowest since 1930, before the UK recognised the rising threat of Nazi Germany."

"Des Browne, the Defence Secretary, will be challenged in the Commons today over reports of further cutbacks in the programme for new Type 45 destroyers and growing doubts on whether the Government will fulfil its promise to build two new aircraft carriers."

"Julian Lewis, a Conservative defence spokesman, said last night that the Royal Navy was "bloodied, battered and on the ropes", with a "palpable feeling of betrayal" at the top as a result of a catalogue of cuts."

U.K. Royal Navy Faces Drastic Cuts

Since the end of the Cold War in 1990, the core Royal Navy has declined in size by at least a half (excluding the Royal Marines). Based on the trends of the last few years, supported by rumours of cuts to come, the Royal Navy is just 10-15 years away from losing its last ship or submarine.

In 1990, the RN had 55,800 personnel, 49 Escorts (Destroyers & Frigates), 29 Fleet Subs (not SSBNs] and 41 MCMVs. In 2006 it had 32,000 personnel, 25 Escorts (Destroyers & Frigates) 10 Fleet Subs (not SSBNs] and 16 MCMVs.

Like most of Europe, governments are being forced to choose between guns and butter and they are choosing butter, i.e., to fund their generous social welfare systems in a time of aging, declining populations. The UK has gone from a policy of no more East of Suez, to one of no more beyond the English channel. It is sad to see the demise of the Royal Navy.

[PAR35]

Britain is mothballing 30 year old harriers and pretend aircraft carriers for new planes and two REAL aircraft carriers.

When were the contracts for the new carriers signed? When will the be delivered? How big are the carriers compared to 'real' carriers?

How many attack submarines do they propose to buy to replace how many? How many destroyers are they going to cut?