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To: spunkets
<sourcery>"If anything that exists was created, then God was created, since he also exists."</sourcery>

That's not good logic.

It is a contradiction to say all of the following:

  1. For all X, if x exists, then x was created.
  2. God exists (and therefore satisfies the first predicate)
  3. God was not created

If you can show otherwise, I and the world of logicians would really like to see that proof.

<sourcery>In order for there to be nothing, there must be a distinction.</sourcery>

No. If there is nothing, then that's all there is. It's called the empty set. The quantity of all things that exist is zero.

In order for there to be an empty set, it must exist. The empty set is distinct form nothing. Therefore, nothing can only exist locally (relative to some context,) and cannot exist universally.

<sourcery>The fundamental principle of existence is the distinction.</sourcery>

Distinction is a concept, and regards the fact that individual things that exist can be differentiated. Distinguiability occurs when the first thing other than nothing exists.

Nothing is also a concept, as are 'exist,' 'fact', 'proof,' and 'thing.'

Distinction does not exist as a side effect of the existence of different things. Different things exist as a side effect of distinction/differentiation (or alternatively, both things and distinctions are co-causitive.)

153 posted on 04/01/2007 2:06:48 PM PDT by sourcery (Government Warning: The Attorney General has determined that Federal Regulation is a health hazard)
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To: sourcery
Re: "If anything that exists was created, then God was created, since he also exists."
That's not good logic.

"It is a contradiction to say all of the following:
1. For all X, if x exists, then x was created.
2. God exists (and therefore satisfies the first predicate)
3. God was not created

Your logic does not apply to God. He was not created, so your number one is bad.

Re: If there is nothing, then that's all there is. It's called the empty set. The quantity of all things that exist is zero.

"In order for there to be an empty set, it must exist. The empty set is distinct form nothing. Therefore, nothing can only exist locally (relative to some context,) and cannot exist universally."

The empty set is a rational construction used to describe something. The empty set can not exist w/o someone to ponder it and in fact can not if there is nothing. There are no distinct forms of nothing. Nothing is indistinguishable from itself.

nothing = nothing.

There are no subsets in the empty set, because each would be equivalent to the empty set.

"Distinction does not exist as a side effect of the existence of different things. Different things exist as a side effect of distinction/differentiation (or alternatively, both things and distinctions are co-causitive.)"

Distinction depends on distinguish ability, which is a property of things. Nothing is indistinguishable from itself, and also any subset of it. That is because it is it's own unique identity. That means if there's nothing, then there's no distinguish ability, or anything else. If any thing exists, it has properties which give it distinguish ability. It is those properties that are fundamental. Distinction itself is a conclusion, or result.

157 posted on 04/01/2007 2:32:31 PM PDT by spunkets ("Freedom is about authority", Rudy Giuliani, gun grabber)
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