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To: B-Chan

You were doing pretty good until the part where you said we can know that god exists through reason but we only know the sun exists through faith. You are turning words upside down for your amusment, I guess.


86 posted on 03/28/2007 2:33:36 PM PDT by Jack Black
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To: Jack Black

Nope. We can know God exists through reason alone, by any of several logical means. (St Anselm's, for one; Descartes, for another; I leave it to you to look up the specifics. Search under "ontological proofs of God".) We can also know God directly, from direct experience, without the use of reason or the senses.

As for the sun: we do not know it exists. We can see, feel, and measure the Sun's output, but we cannot demonstrate that these observations bear any relation to any object outside our own minds. For all we know we are cosmic sleepers, dreaming about something called a "sun". For all we know we are disembodied brains floating in some vat and "living" in a Matrix-style computer simulatied world. Any piece of evidence that you can cite for the existence of the sun could be faked or simulated. Of course, I believe in the existence of the sun (and the physical universe along with it), but belief is not certainty; it is an act of faith. I have faith that what my senses show me is a real world, but I can't "prove" it.

And who is the "me" my senses show these things to, anyway?


88 posted on 03/28/2007 2:44:35 PM PDT by B-Chan (Catholic. Monarchist. Texan. Any questions?)
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