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Marine unit ordered out of Afghanistan
Associated Press ^
| 23 Mar 07
| ROBERT BURNS, AP Military Writer
Posted on 03/23/2007 3:31:08 PM PDT by leadpenny
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To: freema
I am sure a lot of us are getting very tired of hearing about this crap. Pretty soon no American military personel will be allowed to carry weapons into combat. The ROE is becoming to laden with politics. America would never have won any wars in the past under the conditions now being fausted upon our troops.
To: george76
This crap has gotten totally out of hand. We never would have won any wars in the past based on how our men now have to fight.
To: Marine_Uncle
While the peaceniks photoshop their photos.
Click here
103
posted on
03/24/2007 6:56:08 PM PDT
by
bmwcyle
(Freep Fox they drop the ball on GOE)
To: Marine_Uncle
The lawyers and their rules are killing us .
104
posted on
03/24/2007 7:06:45 PM PDT
by
george76
(Ward Churchill : Fake Indian, Fake Scholarship, and Fake Art)
To: leadpenny
LOL
"Over-thinking"....I have never been accused of over-thinking anything....I' ll take it as a compliment! I'll ignore the "perception" and "your reality" crack. : )
I think my support and Post #59 proves which "reality" is real. ; )
105
posted on
03/24/2007 8:28:34 PM PDT
by
Chgogal
(Vote Al Qaeda. Vote Democrat.)
To: leadpenny
Same reason the locals never shot at the Koreans in Vietnam. Koreans tend not to like being shot at. Americans never minded being shot and killed, but Koreans tended to react with massive force if attacked. The Viet Cong learned early to wait for the Americans.
To: Cannoneer No. 4; leadpenny; DevSix; george76; LS
Leadpenny, hopefully you read this.
"A new tactic is to use a suicide car bomber against military convoys, and follow it up with gunfire. If you do this in a town, with lots of civilians around, you can claim that the civilians were killed by the panicked gunfire of the foreign soldiers. This sort of thing is popular with local and foreign journalists."
Funny that Bobbie Burns didn't mention any of this in his article. Guess informed research is not his strong point. Oh well what can one expect from AP?
Also, this is very interesting.
"The Corps first Marine special operations company has been expelled from Afghanistan after a March 4 enemy ambush on the Marines left eight Afghans dead and another 34 wounded, a U.S. spokesman said Friday.
The decision to remove the MSOC was made by Army Maj. Gen. Frank Kearney, head of U.S. Special Operations Command-Central Command, based on his assessment of the peoples perceptions of what happened, said Army Lt. Col. Louis Leto, a spokesman for SOCCent.
After the incident, which prompted an ongoing investigation, the general thought or felt it degrades the units ability to conduct counter-insurgency, Leto said.
The MSOCs deployment into Afghanistan is significant and historic, as it is the Corps first spec-ops unit to deploy into combat since the creation of Marine Corps Forces Special Operations Command in early 2006. The command is the Marine Corps portion of the joint U.S. Special Operations Command.
But SOCCent is investigating an incident on March 4 in which Afghan witnesses and several wounded civilians told Associated Press freelancers that U.S. forces had fired on civilians in Nangarhar province after a suicide attack on a Marine convoy.
The investigation is still ongoing, Leto said. Its very thorough.
Too bad the AP isn't as efficient in getting the Taliban to leave INNOCENT Civilains alone. Well done AP! You succeeded where the Taliban failed!
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1805834/posts?page=86#86
http://www.marinecorpstimes.com/news/2007/03/marine_specops_afghanistan070323/
Cannoneer and DevSix, why the heck is Army Maj. Gen. Frank Kearney so darned worried about "perception"? Is this inter-Military rivalry?
107
posted on
03/24/2007 8:52:16 PM PDT
by
Chgogal
(Vote Al Qaeda. Vote Democrat.)
To: Goreknowshowtocheat
bttt
" Koreans tended to react with massive force if attacked. The Viet Cong learned early to wait for the Americans."
The British navy could learn some from the Koreans too.
108
posted on
03/24/2007 8:59:23 PM PDT
by
george76
(Ward Churchill : Fake Indian, Fake Scholarship, and Fake Art)
To: Chgogal
I don't know MG Kearney, and I don't have any inside knowledge of the inter-service politics involved in standing up MARSOC and then doing them this way, but I can tell you that no O-3 ever made it to O-8 without worrying about "perception." "Perception is reality" when attempting to explain complex subjects to people who don't have the time or the patience to displace their preconceptions with facts. Perception management is one of his Information Operations responsibilities.
Actions to convey and/or deny selected information and indicators to foreign audiences to influence their emotions, motives, and objective reasoning; and to intelligence systems and leaders at all levels to influence official estimates, ultimately resulting in foreign behaviors and official actions favorable to the originator's objectives. In various ways, perception management combines truth projection, operations security, cover, deception, and psychological operations.
109
posted on
03/24/2007 9:47:46 PM PDT
by
Cannoneer No. 4
(Civilian Irregular Information Defense Group -- Distributed IO and counter-PsyOps)
To: Cannoneer No. 4
See Post #82 for the whole email. It is interesting.
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1805834/posts?page=82#82
"3. There are those in the Special Operations community who do NOT want the Marine Corps involved as a player, and will use this event and following accusations/actions as an "I told you so." I know this to be a fact because I've been involved with the overall evolution from the very first meetings (Maj Jim Capers, myself and other "old Force Recon Marines" were invited to these meetings chaired by Quantico types looking into USMC involvement in SOF integration)...etc. Most of us have had our reservations about the entry of the Corps into SOF spectrum from the beginning, so we've watched this effort very closely...not listening just to those "singing the school song" on the issue and listening very closely to what others in the SOF community have been saying about not wanting Marines involved...etc. There is ALREADY much talk going on about this w/in the "anti" groups."
110
posted on
03/24/2007 9:53:12 PM PDT
by
Chgogal
(Vote Al Qaeda. Vote Democrat.)
To: Cannoneer No. 4
Well, call me simple, but removing the MARSOC from theater seems like a win for the enemy to me. At least, that is how I perceive it. BTW, thanks for the SP link. It was very interesting.
111
posted on
03/24/2007 9:59:54 PM PDT
by
Chgogal
(Vote Al Qaeda. Vote Democrat.)
To: Chgogal
bttt
removing the MARSOC from theater seems like a win for the enemy to me
112
posted on
03/24/2007 10:06:44 PM PDT
by
george76
(Ward Churchill : Fake Indian, Fake Scholarship, and Fake Art)
To: carolinalivin
"You would have thought after Viet Nam, we would have learned about being PC in a war."
We did. Then we turned around and forgot every last damned bit of it.
113
posted on
03/24/2007 10:10:17 PM PDT
by
Brucifer
(JF'n Kerry- "That's not just a paper cut, it's a Purple Heart!")
To: Goreknowshowtocheat
I worked with the Tiger Division near Quin Nhon for a short period. I know how they can be.
To: Chgogal
115
posted on
03/25/2007 5:38:21 AM PDT
by
freema
(Marine FRiend, 1stCuz2xRemoved, Mom, Aunt, Sister, Friend, Wife, Daughter, Niece)
To: freema
BTTT
Thanks for the info!
116
posted on
03/25/2007 8:45:54 AM PDT
by
Chgogal
(Vote Al Qaeda. Vote Democrat.)
To: george76
Sad part is the military is allowing PC to take control over how they are conducting these two ventures.
To: bmwcyle
No different then what we saw during the sixtees and early seventies.
To: rightwingextremist1776
Policing is a misuse of Marines.
119
posted on
03/25/2007 5:15:56 PM PDT
by
Rb ver. 2.0
(A day in the country is better than a week in town.)
To: Marine_Uncle
I remember early on in Afgan that we had several good shots available but we had to wake up some lawyer in Tampa to get permission.
The al q... guy got away apparently.
120
posted on
03/25/2007 5:59:56 PM PDT
by
george76
(Ward Churchill : Fake Indian, Fake Scholarship, and Fake Art)
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