Posted on 03/17/2007 6:58:02 PM PDT by FairOpinion
My best friend at another obscure and far smaller forum, (we've been political and spiritual buddies for 6 years now).....is ProRudy too.....and we've just reached a place where we have stopped trying to convert each other....LOL
All right....out of respect for other views I will try to put myself around my inherent biases and do some research into the mysteries of Rudy.
I did no such thing. Much of my professional work is dedicated to championing Reagan's legacy. I really do give up - you are falsely accusing me of things in order to deliberately miss my point, and life is too short.
There has got to be a better conservative out there.
Pray Thompson runs, he's the best out there... Period!
Cognitive dissonance.
"Demeaning" is calling names like, oh, I don't know, "leftist scumbag."
The Giuliani campaign should emphasize its candidate's independence from traditional national Republican policies. Especially useful in this strategy is Giuliani's role in overturning a Reagan administration attempt to throw disabled people off the Social Security rolls, his prosecution of Republican elected officials -- especially his authorization for calling his boss, Attorney General Edwin Meese III, a sleaze, and his un-Republican views on many social issues of concern to New Yorkers, like abortion, gun control and bias protection for homosexuals.' - From the 'Guiliani Vulnerability Study - April 1993
That's one way to frame it. Another is that I know what I'm talking about, and I'm right about Giuliani. But that is something you will only understand eventually, and I'm not going to spend any more time trying to persuade you now, since facts don't affect your prejudice.
And the evidence be damned.
That's YOUR philosophy, such as it is. I lived through the real evidence, have seen it with my own eyes.
You'll see it, too, during Giuliani's coming two terms as President of the United States.
You are going to love him.
Projection.
You'll see it, too, during Giuliani's coming two terms as President of the United States.
Delusion.
You are going to love him.
Only if I experience early senility.
Want to put money on it?
I am thinking of posting a "future apology to Rudy supporters" thread, as I am absolutely confident that a huge percentage of the anti-Rudy crowd here will ultimately come to love President Guiliani.
I have NO doubt that this will in fact happen. Of course we Rudy-bots will have to experience two years of vile insults in the meantime.
That is quite decent of you! Ultimately, you may not be convinced, and that is fine - I have enjoyed the debate - but I appreciate you at least being open to think about some of the things I've said. Thanks.
Walter Mitty lives.
The problem is we're both arguing theories, and I'm willing to concede that but perhaps you aren't.
We have a single fact - abortions in NYC decreased by a more significant percentage than nationally during Rudy Giuliani's term as mayor.
The theories are did Rudy do anything that contributed to that or did it somehow miraculously happen without him doing anything.
Considering the large drop in crime and general "cleaning up" of the city, I'd say his policies played a fairly good-sized role. Perhaps they didn't directly refer to abortion, but an improvement in vice crime, druggies, etc., etc., will most likely also lead to decreased abortion.
Whatever - the FACT is that abortions decreased more under Rudy than elsewhere.
Now it's your turn to provide a source that PROVES beyond a reasonable doubt that it would have happened even if Dinkins were still mayor.
Still waiting for the cite on that one.
Murdock -- who is a strong supporter of Giuliani for president in 2008 (as am I) -- does not run from Giuliani's past statements in favor of the pro-choice position. But he points out that during Giuliani's tenure as mayor, the number of abortions fell in New York City by more than the national average, and Giuliani did not actively promote policies that would have led to an increase in the number of abortions.
NARAL and Planned Parenthood would be VERY surprised to hear that their boy Rudy decreased the number of NYC abortions.
Rudy is not just "pro-abortion." Rudy is joined at the hip to the most radical pro-abortion elements---NARAL, Planned Parenthood, and the rest of the abortion-on-demand-with-the-govt-picking-up-the-tab crowd.
A LOOK AT RUDY'S RADICAL PRO-ABORT PAST IS A GLIMPSE INTO THE FUTURE
Giuliani used his Mayoral term to advance abortion even though as Mayor he had no official mandate nor did he have a legislative role to do so.
From the FEC database: 04/24/1999 Donations
New York State NARAL, Inc Women's Health PAC
NARAL donated exclusively to Democrat candidates with one exception----Rudy Giuliani. Giuliani accepted $1,000 from NARAL in 1999. NARAL gave $250 to Hillary Rodham Clinton. NARAL gave $1000---4 times as much-----to pro-abortion Giuliani.
Clearly, NARAL trusted Rudy's pro-abortion credentials, and Rudy's willingness to advance NARAL's radical abortion-on-demand agenda. NARAL Honored Mayor Rudy for his efforts---he was the honored guest speaker and made The Opening Remarks at NARAL's "Champions of Choice" Luncheon.
Giuliani's 1994 and 1998 tax returns show $500 in donations to Planned Parenthood, the country's largest abortion provider. In 1996, Mayor Giuliani issued a proclamation declaring "Planned Parenthood Day" in New York City, while praising the group's eugenicist founder, Margaret Sanger.
In a CNN interview, Giuliani indicated he does not support even a modest ban on the gruesome partial-birth abortion procedure saying, "No, I have not supported that, and I don't see my position on that changing." Giuliani also indicated he would have upheld President Clinton's veto of the partial-birth abortion ban.
Mayor Rudy told Phil Donahue he'd give his daughter the money for an abortion (to get rid of his own grandchild).
Rudy Giuliani quote, 11/3/89: "There must be public funding for abortion for poor women. We can not deny any woman the right to make her own decision about abortion because she lacks resources. I have also stated that I disagree with President Bush's veto last week of public funding for abortion. "
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The pro-abort savages have commenced the killing of the innocents----who knows where it will end, with a radical pro-abort type like Rudy handling the levers of government, and NARAL whispering in his ear?
"Why?"
Because.
That was a refutation of a sourceless assertion by another Rudy-bot.
C'mon, don't simply invent your "facts".
Please explain to me why abortions decreased in NYC by more than the national trend during Rudy's term if he's so PRO-abortion.
He believes a woman should be allowed to hold her own beliefs as to whether or not human life begins at conception (the bible is a bit hazy on that one) and to make her own decision, preferably not to abort. That is a policy that follows the law as it is currently written. You and the Terri-bots have the majority of Americans scared to death of a nutcase in office who bears more of a resemblance to Randall Terry than to Ronald Reagan.
I don't think Rudy is loved in Arab countries. ;)
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