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To: robertpaulsen
The lower court never ruled that Miller's weapon was or was not suitable for militia use. They said the NFA violated the second amendment. They were no more specific than that.

I know, but the Supreme Court opinion indicated that they implicitly did, when their opinion stated:

In the absence of any evidence tending to show that possession or use of a "shotgun having a barrel of less than eighteen inches in length" at this time has some reasonable relationship to the preservation or efficiency of a well regulated militia, we cannot say that the Second Amendment guarantees the right to keep and bear such an instrument. Certainly it is not within judicial notice that this weapon is any part of the ordinary military equipment or that its use could contribute to the common defense.

...

We are unable to accept the conclusion of the court below and the challenged judgment must be reversed. The cause will be remanded for further proceedings.

Since there were no "further proceedings" we can never know what might have occurred at them. But surely Miller's lawyer, had Miller still been among the living, would have brought in evidence that short barreled shotguns, even if not the exact type used by Miller, had indeed been at one time "part of the ordinary military", and not so long before then either.

In the civil war, and Indian wars after and before, the shotgun, usually a double barrel, was a common weapon of calvary troops.

BTW, the Winchester model 97 had an 18" barrel not a 20". (see also this article from Global Security But the reason it was that long was to give it a respectable magazine capacity, since their would be no point the barrel being shorter than the magazine tube. (Some barrel length went to the bayonet attachment as well, since the base of the bayonet fits up against the end of the magazine.


1,165 posted on 03/13/2007 10:02:26 PM PDT by El Gato ("The Second Amendment is the RESET button of the United States Constitution." -- Doug McKay)
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To: El Gato
"would have brought in evidence that short barreled shotguns"

I KNOW short barreled shotguns were used by the military. There is no need to convince me. I concede the fact that short barreled shotguns have been, and are still being used, by the military.

Now, are we both in agreement? Have I been clear enough, or do I need to say more?

The argument concerns shotguns WITH BARRELS LESS THAN 18". Got that? Please restrict your arguments to that category of weapons.

The Model 97? 18". Doesn't count. Forget about it. The Model 1897 (which was the one used by the military in WWI)? 20". Doesn't count. Forget about it.

If, in the Civil war or the Indian wars some guy went into the barn, dusted off an old shotgun with a short barrel and used it, that doesn't mean the weapon bears a reasonable relationship to a militia. Give that argument a rest already.

1,182 posted on 03/14/2007 9:09:02 AM PDT by robertpaulsen
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