Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

To: Vicomte13

"Remember that you are criticizing the French for their stance. France doesn't have a law of return, and hasn't since Israel existed."

I am criticizing any country/org/person who selects Israel as worse and more worthy of criticism when in fact they are more worthy of praise. Israel is often, as you did here, criticized for policies/laws that are vastly better than their neighbors, and in fact better or the same as France's neighbors or France itself.

Here is your vaunted French citizenship law:

"French nationality law is historically based on the principle of jus soli, according to Ernest Renan's definition, opposed to the German's definition of nationality formalized by Fichte. However, elements of jus sanguinis have been included in the French code, especially during the 1992 reform, which forced children born in France of foreign parents to request French nationality at adulthood, instead of being automatically accorded it (no conditions are required to acquire it, but it forces children of foreigners to go through a bureaucratic process, while children of French citizens - whether immigrants or not - cut through all the red tape). As in most other countries, but differing from the US, children born in France to tourists or short term visitors do not acquire French citizenship by virtue of birth in France: residency must be proven. As immigration became more and more of a political theme in the 1980s, albeit a lower immigration rate (see Demographics in France), both left- and right-wing governments have issued several laws restricting more and more the possibilities of being naturalized."

"Birth in France
The principle is that Birth in France does not automatically confer nationality."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/French_nationality_law


"An French JEW doesn't have to surrender his US citizenship when he becomes an Israeli, but a French Gentile?"

Huh? So now we are talking about a French Jew with US citizenship now seeking to become an Israeli citizen???

Did you mean surrender French citizenship? Links please. I dislike arguing with myself. Wikipedia which is not pro-Israel, concedes that repatriation laws which are common are only controversial if the country is Israel.

The fact that we are having this discussion and not discussing why no Jews can become citizens of most Arab countries, period no exceptions, speaks volumes to your pre-existing bias. Get out more. Read more that is not printed in the Euro press.


17 posted on 03/08/2007 12:16:12 PM PST by dervish (Remember Amalek)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 14 | View Replies ]


To: dervish

The issue with Israel is that there is a term of citizenship based on RELIGION. Not who one's parents were (lex sanguinis) or where one was born (lex solis). Those things are entirely appropriate in a secular state.

Differentials in the law based on what one's religion is are offensive. Israel has distinctly pro-Jewish laws. It is founded to be a Jewish state, not just ethnically Jewish, but religiously Jewish, and the religious component of Judaism determines aspects of one's juridical treatment by Israel.

This is offensive.

Of course, Greece had similar laws until recently, and may still if they have not been changed. The Greek law is offensive as well, and EU pressure should be gradually brought to bear on these holdover religious artifacts in law. Thus would say the French.

Israel's laws are vastly better than France's?
That is a joke?


18 posted on 03/08/2007 12:38:54 PM PST by Vicomte13 (Le chien aboie; la caravane passe.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 17 | View Replies ]

To: dervish

"The fact that we are having this discussion and not discussing why no Jews can become citizens of most Arab countries, period no exceptions, speaks volumes to your pre-existing bias."

The answer to this statement is simply that Arab lands have oppressive governments, for the most part, and the Arab world has taken up this cause of eliminating Israel, and so targets Jews specifically for harsh treatment and discrimination. Also, a good deal of Islamist fanaticism has been built up by playing off of Arab obsessions with the Israeli problem. Israel has become a "boogey man" used to provoke a lot of irrational and self-destructive behavior on the part of the whole Middle Eastern world.

It's all quite tragic, but then, so is the Taiwan and North Korea situation, and Darfur is more tragic than any of these. And all four of those flashpoints: Israel, Taiwan, North Korea and Darfur, are outside of the main French spheres of interest. If Taiwan falls to China, that will be sad for democracy on Taiwan, but France doesn't have anything to do with it. Ditto for the Korean issue. And, for the most part, ditto for Israel. From the French perspective, the main issue with Israel is that the perennial problems between Israel and the Arabs cause problems for the French relations with the Arabs.

But really not a very great problem, so this is just another one of those diplomatic fever points to be managed, but that's about it.

I understand that you are focused upon and fascinated by Israel. Many Americans are. Very few French are. The Arab-Israeli wars are viewed as more of a nuisance than anything else.


19 posted on 03/08/2007 12:51:11 PM PST by Vicomte13 (Le chien aboie; la caravane passe.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 17 | View Replies ]

Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article


FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson