Pastor's paddle leads to assault charge

KATU 2 - Portland, OR ^ | Mar 1, 2007 at 8:27 AM PST | Anita Kissee and KATU Web Staff

[Sopater]

ALBANY, Ore. - The arrest of an Albany pastor on assault charges stemming from the spanking of his son with a paddle has raised the issue of corporal discipline and child abuse.

Pastor David Lee Fink of the Potter's House Christian Fellowship in Albany was charged with assault after police say his 17-year-old son called authorities to report an incident involving his younger brother and his father.

Police say they found "extreme" red marks, welts and bruising on the buttocks, thighs and arm of Fink's 13-year-old son on Monday.

Police took a 16-inch wooden paddle into evidence. The cracked paddle is time-worn and wrapped in duct tape in two places. "Board of correction" is written on the paddle in ballpoint pen.

Fink reportedly struck his son 10 times with the paddle.

Police say the spanking crossed the line into assault. One woman disagreed and said the police have gone too far and that the pastor had done nothing wrong.

Christina Niskanen said "I believe in the Bible and what does the Bible say about spanking? That's how we raised our children. I'm sorry, my children lived through it. I'm sure everybody else's will."

Another woman who did not give her name disagreed with Niskanen, saying, "I'd rather raise my voice than raise my hand. And even though in the Bible it says 'spare the rod, spoil the child,' I still feel spanking your children is not an appropriate measure, there's other means you can take."

The investigation is continuing in Albany.

[Jeffrey_D.]

so appropriate...and it works so well with your screen name

"Yes sir" lol

[Bluestateredman]

I come from a family of four boys and my parents used to beat the hell out of us for anything we did wrong. In hindsight, it never worked, and only made us into angry, violent people. I would never raise a hand to one of my three boys. Violence against your own children is nothing but your admitted failure as a parent to instill proper values in them.

[Sopater]

Do you also advocate stoning for adultery?
Or do you just pick and choose the parts that agree with your opinions?

Good question.

Actually, the scriptures that mandate stoning for adultery are part of the "civil law" handed down by God to Israel. This law was intended for the theocratic society that was to bring forth the Savior of the world. Thankfully, the coming of the Savior, Jesus Christ, fulfilled the purpose of this law as well as the "cremonial laws" that Israel was also commanded to keep.

The scriptures that describe corpral punishment are the "wisdom scriptures" that are intended to offer guidance. We are not at risk for breaking a civil or ceremonial law for not following through with this advice, but we are at risk of allowing the consequences that we are warned about to befall our children, our family, and even our society.

So no, I don't believe in picking and choosing scripture as it aligns with my opinion, I allow scripture to form my opinion.

[Sopater]

the point of discipline is correction, not abuse.

Agreed. When discipline crosses the line to abuse, it becomes not only ineffective but damaging, both physically and emotionally. We should never sin in our anger. If you are that angry, you've already waited too long to mead out a spanking.

[rednesss]

"You know how your mother doesn't like you using scissors on her sofa."

[ohioman]

"Children have become so much more well behaved and respectful since spanking went out of favor. /s"

Sarcasm continued....

And our schools are so much safer and calmer since they got rid of corporal punishment.

Sarcasm off...

It is sad to see how many bed wetters we have even at a great site like FR. IF a parent is consistent, they need only to provide corporal punishment a few times, then the threat alone will work for years to come.

[Eagles Talon IV]

How about you telling us, and backing it up, what exactly this "point" is that must not be passed?

[GovernmentShrinker]

Sorry to hear what you two went through. I think the fact that the older brother called police is the key here. He was in position to know better than anyone on this thread whether the situation called for police and court intervention. Not only is 13 way too old for any kind of spanking, but any disciplinary system that results in your 17 year old thinking he needs to call police to protect his younger brother from you, is obviously ineffective as well as being way over the line into assault.

[rednesss]

Or the 17 year old has just been brain-washed in public school that he should seek out the government to solve all the problems in the world. He'll soon find out that the "system" more closely resembles a meat grinder.

[Eagles Talon IV]

Nobody advocates "beating the hell" out of anyone. If you think a few well places smacks on the ass of a child is considered "beating" then I suggest you have the problem. Perhaps your experience as a child of getting beaten for anything at all you did wrong has caused you to feel this way.

When I was 8 years old I refused to do something my mother asked me to do. I used the one word I had been told not to use to my parents when asked to do something (No). I was warned a half dozen times to do what she said or face the consequences "when your father comes home". I refused, dad came home and at 8 years old had a leather belt laid across my butt for each "no" to mom.

It was the last time I said no to either of them (not that I would EVER say no to my dad.) This was not uncommon in the timers up thru the 1950's and into the early 1960's.

Not to be disrespectful to your beliefs but you have to be insane to believe kids today are better behaved then they were in the past. Even Dr Spock admitted he screwed up when he advocated never saying no to children because it would inhibit their growth.

[TalonDJ]

What does it teach a child that their parent needs to use a hard object to beat them?

Well it taught me that my parents loved me enough to instill needed discipline to make me a better person. It taught me that my parents were not some limp spined types that care more about their own personal feelings than about letting a child turn into a brat. It taught me that they had the for sight and intelligencer to see that a few tears from a child were far better than a life time of destructive behavior. I thank them for it ever time I see a wild and unruly child.

[Frapster]

If corporal punishment is involved at the age of 13 - the parent failed the child at least 4 years earlier.

[TalonDJ]

when the "spanking" goes beyond a point then it is no longer protected under the First Amendment

The First Amendment protects US from the government over stepping it's bounds. It does not, nor does it need to 'protect' certain forms of child rearing. You have the purpose of the constitution backward.

[TalonDJ]

Even 13 yearolds might rarely need it. But yeah, by then it should be more or less no existent. At around that age the butt becomes more resistant to pain, and the judgment of the kid is developed enough that other forms of punishment have more weight.

[GovernmentShrinker]

More likely, the family situation he and his brother were in was a literal meat grinder, and he'll be glad he got himself and his brother out of it. If the younger boy was really seriously misbehaving, and the punishment he was getting was appropriate, the older boy would have little reason to call police. This father has raised his 17 year old to fear him and to think the government is a better source of protection and authority than his father. Nice job < /s>

[ContemptofCourt]

My mother would regularly beat me...almost exclusively over the grades I brought home. Once, she held a gun to my head and told me to call my dad at work and say goodbye.....this for bringing home a "C" on a report card. It was at that point that I realized she was nuts, and vowed to never hit my children. I remember telling her that I would never hit my own children, and she scoffed at the idea. Like another poster on this thread, when the time was right I left home and went far, far away.

I currently have two children...11 and 7...and have never hit them in anger. Somehow, they have grown up well adjusted.

[misterrob]

When I was a kid and broke something that belonged to another child I was forced to go into my piggy bank and use my allowance money that I had worked for to pay for it. If I had to do extra chores then so be it.

If I misused a toy that caused damage or harm, it went in the trash.

If I didn't do my assigned tasks then I lost TV and other privileges.

If I disprected my teachers then I was grounded.

If I was unwilling to be a good citizen in my house then my brother and sisters got to do things that I didn't.

When I was mean to another kid I had to go and ring the kid's doorbell and apologize to both the kid and the family.

I didn't need to be slapped in the face or beaten with a stick to learn how to behave.

[twigs]

I think 13 is old for physical discipline. I don't think the police have any business getting into this, but I just don't think it's the best way to handle this.

[twigs]

Proper spanking is not violence against children. Personally, I think around 5 is a good cut-off for spanking. After that, you can do other things. Before that, spanking IMHO is for getting their attention. A couple of smacks on the legs, just enough to hurt but not leave marks, is plenty adequate. Get their attention then deal with the problem. And children are different. Some don't respond to spanking at all and others do.

[newcats]

So do you follow all the other "wisdom scriptures" too?