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Victor Davis Hanson: Anatomy of Iraq. How did we get to this baffling scenario?
NRO ^ | March 2, 2007 | Victor Davis Hanson

Posted on 03/02/2007 6:13:38 AM PST by Tolik

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To: Night Hides Not

Added to the VDH ping list. Thanks


21 posted on 03/02/2007 8:04:40 AM PST by Tolik
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To: MNJohnnie

You lost me here. I guess I was not clear in my original post. I meant that FR as a slice of conservatism in general supports the Bush Doctrine (or so is my impression, individual opinions may vary). I also support the Bush Doctrine. What reactionaries are you talking about?


22 posted on 03/02/2007 8:08:23 AM PST by Tolik
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To: Tolik
Sad to say, it's already too late for our Outstanding troops to salvage the situation under this surrendering president.
Add it all up, Firing Rumsfeld, Failure to secure and seal the Iranian and Syrian borders. [Mexico anyone ???].Participating in Iraq/Iran/Terrorist/ regional neighborhood diplomatic "CAN'T WE ALL GET ALONG BULLCRAP" Sessions.
Sitting in the same room with Pelosi and Reid and Seeking that Esteemed Criminal Group's august input.
I'm very very afraid it really is all over and perhaps McCain's devastating slip of vocabulary was not wrong. God help us. Someone please tell me I'm wrong.
23 posted on 03/02/2007 8:08:50 AM PST by late bloomer ( Neglegere homo pone aulaeum. semi-retired warlord)
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To: Tolik
I think VDH underestimates support for Bush's Mideast policy if conservatives at FreeRepublic are any indication.

Just out of curiousity, but how so? I find VDH to be extremely accurate in his assessment.

24 posted on 03/02/2007 8:14:56 AM PST by Steel Wolf (As Ibn Warraq said, "There are moderate Muslims but there is no moderate Islam.")
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To: wayoverontheright
Who? What talk shows?

The VP, for one. Remember that?

25 posted on 03/02/2007 8:15:16 AM PST by highball ("I never should have switched from scotch to martinis." -- the last words of Humphrey Bogart)
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To: misterrob

Now you're just being silly, and very simplstic.


26 posted on 03/02/2007 8:18:58 AM PST by Valin (History takes time. It is not an instant thing.)
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To: Valin
Actually I am not. The Arab street responds very well to fear and intimidation and any attempt to appeal to a higher form of humanity is viewed as weakness. Furthermore, I never ceased to be amazed at the ignorance that flows so freely in their culture. These people were given a chance to live without fear and too many of them have taken up arms against us or lent support to those that do. When they are not trying to kill Americans they are busy slaughtering one another for not believing in Islam properly. What is the %? Who really knows but if you are going to continue to follow Don Rumsfeld's failed dogma then you miss seeing the reality of these people.
27 posted on 03/02/2007 8:24:30 AM PST by misterrob (Jack Bauer/Chuck Norris 2008)
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To: late bloomer

Stop looking at the trees and look at the forest. Your comment reminds of the news papers in the Civil War. Whenever the Union lost a battle the papers would scream that all was lost, the same went for the Confederate papers.
What is there in the consevative movement (or at least some) that is always ready to declare defeat at the drop of the hat, or are wanting to find a silver bullet answer to whatever the problem is?


28 posted on 03/02/2007 8:26:21 AM PST by Valin (History takes time. It is not an instant thing.)
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To: misterrob

Well that's pretty much simplistic nonsense.


29 posted on 03/02/2007 8:28:39 AM PST by Valin (History takes time. It is not an instant thing.)
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To: Tolik
I think VDH underestimates support for Bush's Mideast policy if conservatives at FreeRepublic are any indication.

It isn't an indication.

30 posted on 03/02/2007 8:29:47 AM PST by HitmanLV ("If at first you don't succeed, keep on sucking until you do suck seed." - Jerry 'Curly' Howard)
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To: Tolik
ed to the VDH ping list. Thanks

Your home page reminds me that I have been negligent in updating mine...hopefully, I can get to it after 4/15.

31 posted on 03/02/2007 9:31:01 AM PST by Night Hides Not (Chuck Hagel makes Joe Biden look like a statesman!)
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To: Tolik

Thanks for the ping !


32 posted on 03/02/2007 9:35:13 AM PST by IrishMike ( What happens when aliens breed with sheep ? - Democrats)
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To: Tolik

Victor "Panglos" Hanson bump.


33 posted on 03/02/2007 9:38:38 AM PST by Austin Willard Wright
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To: Tolik; misterrob
I am really disappointed. I would of figures Dr Hanson was smarter then this. I guess the "Movie Strategy from watching macho boy Hollywerid movies" mindset is just too deep set for the American people to ever cope with how different Counter Insurgency is from Conventional War.

For example Al Sadr. Al Sadr is a clever little thug. He walks right up to the line but he does not cross it. He is typical of the sorts of messy little problems that crop up in a Counter Insurgency. NOT exactly an enemy not exactly an ally. So how you deal with him is troublesome.

Since Malki and Al Sadr are both Shia, Malki cannot squish him without splitting his own power base. So he keeps trying to negotiate with the twit. We have FINALLY caught a break since the twit ran off to Iran.

Here is how Counter Insurgency run the Dinocon way would look.

. - Americans: Yo, all you Iraqis. Now we know you all have been oppressed and terrorized by Saddam and his goons for about 40 years so we came over here to show you a better way. So gather round and we are going to teach you this thing called Democracy. We want to teach you this cause we figure if we get can get enough of you following this ideology you will not follow the ideology that preaches it is a good thing to fly airplanes into buildings full of our Civilians.

Now the first things you need to learn is this part about the Rule of Law. Study the sub chapters on Innocent until prove Guilty, Trial by Jury, Right to Legal Representation and really important, the chapter on outlawing Cruel and Unusual Punishment. Ok, now while you do that, we are going to arbitrarily round up and kill any Iraqis who we think maybe have ever talked mean about us.

What? No we are not going to bother with any of that messy Democracy stuff cause we are at war. And according to our Holloweird Movie guide to Military Action flicks any time you are at war you can waste anyone who pisses you off for what ever reason you want any way you want to do it. According to Hollyweird, we don't need nothing like proof or nothing we can just go wack that little Al Sadr freak cause he pisses us off. Evidence? We don't need no stinkin' evidence. Our action movie heros never bother with any evidence. In the Movie we watch on TV says we are just suppose to go kill him because he pisses us off so that what we want to do here. Now quit talking back and learn our lessons on Democracy.

Iraqi 1. Hey Mahmoud, why are we helping these clowns?

Iraqi 2. What do you mean Achmed, they got rid of Saddam!

Iraqi 1. They did? Looks to me like they just took his place.

Iraqi 2. Well ya so?

Iraqi 1. Well at least the old thugs were from around here. These guys are not only from out of town they are not even Muslims. We may has well have Muslim thugs if we got to have thugs.

Iraqi 2. You right, time to join the Jihad!

That is what this "Counter Insurgency doctrine as learned from watching TV dramas" would produce. It is utter stupidity but forget trying to penetrate the Dinocons welded shut minds. They are too busy screaming their group think on Iraq to actually LEARN anything about Iraq.

34 posted on 03/02/2007 9:39:20 AM PST by MNJohnnie (Cheney-Bolton 2008)
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To: highball
But instead of asking for that sacrifice, we were told that our contribution to the war effort was to keep on shopping.

ABSOLUTELY CORRECT!!

I was sickened and disgusted that the President had so shallow and foolish an attitude about the American people. We were crying out to be rallied. More than a billion dollars was raised by private sources in a month. We wanted, needed, demanded to sacrifice.

Alas, our desires were ignored, our hopes dashed and we were told to act like nothing happened. Big Bropther, after all, would take care of everything.

The elitism of Bush and the power of Central Authority took over. In the end, when they needed our support, we had lost interest in their private little war.

35 posted on 03/02/2007 2:53:58 PM PST by Louis Foxwell (here come I, gravitas in tow.)
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To: highball
But instead of asking for that sacrifice, we were told that our contribution to the war effort was to keep on shopping.

Exactly! Thus allowing the majority of Americans to think we are not at war. Seems I remember Bush 1 saying the same thing about going shopping to ease the recession. How lame.

36 posted on 03/02/2007 7:03:54 PM PST by Chani (Happy cows make good cheese.)
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To: MNJohnnie
I would of figures Dr Hanson was smarter then this.

Johnnie, your posts always make me smile...

37 posted on 03/02/2007 7:10:02 PM PST by Ogie Oglethorpe (2nd Amendment - the reboot button on the U.S. Constitution)
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To: highball
...we were told that our contribution to the war effort was to keep on shopping.

Please, don't dismiss this so cavalierly.

Recall that, in September, 2001, our economy was indeed in precarious condition -- the left-over Clinton recession was in full swing, before the Bush tax cuts could kick in. Jobs were still being lost, in the aftermath of the high-tech bubble bursting.

Then, when the WTC went down, everything stopped!

Parking lots were empty. Shopping malls were vacant. Restaurants started laying off people. For about seven-to-ten days, the entire economy was teetering -- which had been the very intention of Osama's plan.

Finally, the log jam broke. But it was still a "close run thing". The administration's insistence on "keep on shoppin'" was exactly the medicine the economy needed.

Be assured those two weeks were very scary for people in retail.

38 posted on 03/02/2007 7:37:35 PM PST by okie01 (The Mainstream Media: IGNORANCE ON PARADE)
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To: wayoverontheright
...but I don't remember anyone in the administration saying that taking Saddam down would be easy.

Nobody did...that I am aware of. Not in the administration, that is.

But there were a number of pundits -- both liberal and conservative -- who adopted that stance. And promoted it via the media.

Things were said. Things were remembered. But the blame was placed on those who did not say them, to save the skin of those who did.

39 posted on 03/02/2007 7:41:16 PM PST by okie01 (The Mainstream Media: IGNORANCE ON PARADE)
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To: Chani; Amos the Prophet

See #38


40 posted on 03/02/2007 7:46:33 PM PST by okie01 (The Mainstream Media: IGNORANCE ON PARADE)
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