[flashbunny]

So when the founding fathers expressed it as their belief, and rationale for the second amendment, they were playing into the hands of the enemy?

"what country can preserve it's liberties if their rulers are not warned from time to time that their people preserve the spirit of resistance? let them take arms."

Thomas Jefferson to William Smith

[Liberty Rattler]

It's a bitter pill isn't it!

I am a Jefferson fan, but we have to go by what is in the Constitution, not what might be written about the debates surrounding it. It's true that the debates give insight on what was intended. But you can be sure that what was intended here was to strengthen the Union, not overthrow it.

The one thing that can't be refuted is the intent of the Constitution to protect the Union from insurrection.

How else do you explain that clause?

I've pondered over it some myself.

[Liberty Rattler]

Oh, and I meant to add,

When we, in our time, in a debate about gun rights, start to talk about overthrowing the government, we come off like a bunch of nut-cases, and thereby play into the hands of the gun-grabbing enemy.

That's what I meant by that.