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To: proudmilitarymrs
Yes Jesus ascended through his own power as God. Mary was assumed, not the same thing.

Then how could Mary be your Co-Redemptrix? Especially if she did not die for your sins?

Anyway, I'm a Calvinistic Baptist. I only spoke up because some of you pretend non-Catholics don't exist and you like to hide how modern some of your 'ancient' doctrines are. You're the last ones to ever mention how modern, for instance, the infallibility of the pope is. Then you all just pretend that these beliefs were uniform throughout the ancient church. And it's not true. Of course, this is part of why the pope deemed himself infallible, namely, so he could pronounce such flaky doctrines as official dogma.
68 posted on 02/24/2007 12:05:03 PM PST by George W. Bush
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To: George W. Bush

My merely being Catholic offends you?

sheesh


92 posted on 02/24/2007 2:31:37 PM PST by proudmilitarymrs (It's not immigration, it's an invasion!)
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To: George W. Bush
I'm a Calvinistic Baptist.

Why bother arguing then? Your salvation or lack thereof has been pre-determined.

139 posted on 02/24/2007 8:21:53 PM PST by Rodney King (No, we can't all just get along.)
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To: George W. Bush
There is no Catholic doctrine or dogma that Mary or anyone else is co-Redemptorix with Jesus Christ. If one were to say that by her acceptance of her virgin motherhood of Jesus in response to the message of the archangel Gabriel (The Annunciation), that Mary willingly cooperated with God's plan by saying "Let it be done unto me according to Thy word", that would be accurate. Mary, however, did not personally redeem mankind nor could she. Unlike Jesus Christ, she had only a human nature. Only His sacrifice, not hers, could redeem mankind.

I am a great partisan of John Paul II but, to the extent that he may have ever said anything that reasonably led you to believe otherwise, he certainly defined no doctrine or dogma to that effect. There are some "ultras" among Catholics who want to believe that Mary is co-Redemptorix. They have been quite disappointed to date and are quite likely to remain so.

Also, papal infallibility was formally proclaimed by the First Vatican Council during the 1850s in the pontificate of Pope Pius IX. Papal infallibility had long been an undefined tradition of the Roman Catholic Church, the original Christian Church. There was no Calvinist anything before God created Calvin, nor any reformation before God created Luther, nor any Baptist Church before it was created in reformation times. Non-Catholic Christians existed from early times to our own. Donatists, Nestorians, Pelagians, Arians, Albigensians, and many more such groups existed within Christianity but outside of Roman Catholicism long before there was a reformation, long before there were Baptists, Anabaptists, Lutherans, Methodists, Anglicans, and what not.

A great thing about America is that I may hold my Roman Catholic beliefs alongside of you holding your Calvinist Baptist beliefs alongside others who are Lutheran or Methodist or Jehovah's Witnesses or Jews or Mormons or agnostics or atheists. We all live here and we are all protected by First Amendment freedom of worship and freedom from establishment.

Like all Catholics who believe as Catholics must believe, I believe that Jesus Christ and Jesus Christ alone is my personal Lord and Savior. I suspect that you share that belief. Someday, I dare to hope to meet you personally in heaven.

204 posted on 02/25/2007 9:33:18 PM PST by BlackElk (Dean of Discipline of the Tomas de Torquemada Gentlemen's Club)
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