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To: DustyMoment

I agree that my message was a hodgepodge of issues, because I was responding to a hodgepodge of issues, and you are quite right to reply to only those that interest you.

I really love the idealism of the Statue of Liberty, which is effectively an invitation. "Bring us your tired, your poor, your huddled masses, yearning to be free". I think of that as a great and grand value, perhaps America's greatest gift to the world.

So when you say illegals are not invited, you're replacing the noble words on the Statue of Liberty with a fence and an iron door slammed in people's faces. I prefer the older, more hospitable conception of America.

Besides, we have issued them another kind of invitation. We are hiring them to do work, and we're paying them, and that's effectively an invitation. You know that if we did not do this, they would not come.

I have a hard time really thinking of a country as "my home" to which I should restrict entry to people. After all, it's the home of many people I would not want to invite, if given the chance to not invite them. Would I rather have an illegal here or Al Sharpton, for example? Would I rather have an illegal here than a worker I regularly deal with, a native-born American citizen, whose fondest desire is to sleep all day?

And perhaps above all, I really hate the language many of the anti-illegal people use. "Invaders" "Cockroaches", etc, etc are only some of the names I've seen. And yet when I look at them, I just see poor people trying to make a living as best they can. It's really hard for me to feel negatively about that kind of spirit, particularly when many native born Americans, as you have noted, seem to be lazier and less enthusiastic about doing great things than ever

Perhaps I feel that the illegals live up the American spirit better than many of us do, and that makes me sad that so many of us yearn to push them out. To me, it just doesn't feel like the good thing to do.

D


406 posted on 02/23/2007 1:47:18 PM PST by daviddennis (If you like my stuff, please visit amazing.com, my new social networking site!)
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To: daviddennis
I really love the idealism of the Statue of Liberty, which is effectively an invitation. "Bring us your tired, your poor, your huddled masses, yearning to be free". I think of that as a great and grand value, perhaps America's greatest gift to the world.

The American people never got to approve that statement. It was rammed through by some wealthy liberal socialite with too much time on her hands looking for a cause to justify her existence. Look it up.

415 posted on 02/23/2007 2:19:04 PM PST by metalurgist ("For what will it profit a man if he gains the whole world and forfeits his soul?" No to Rudy)
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To: daviddennis

When I was in college, I had a psych professor who presented the following situation: Everyone in the world made $50,000/yr - everyone was equal. Then you, and a few others got a raise and now earned $50,050/yr. Because you now made more, you were now "rich", while everyone else was "poor". Often, poverty is more psychological than anything else.

No one likes turning their backs on those who are truly in need and Americans are among the most generous people in the world. But, we aren't responsible for all the ills in the world, nor are we responsible for the fact that too many dictators are too accomplished at stealing from those whom they rule. We can't fix the truly poor people of the world.

Neither the symbolism nor the words of the Statue of Liberty have changed. When immigrants by the thousands flowed into the US through Ellis Island, they were vetted by the immigration people there. Most were allowed in, but some were turned back. However, there is a very distinct difference between the illegals today and the immigrants of yesteryear. Those immigrants came to be part of America; to take part and assimilate American society. They brought their skills, abilities and desires to make America better when they came.

The majority of the illegals bring none of those ideals with them when they cross the border. Some come because they truly believe that they are re-settling land that still belongs to Mexico. Some come to earn a better living here than they can in Mexico. They take the bulk of the money they earn here and send it to Mexico where the government gets a large percentage of it. That's why exporting illegals is such a major Mexican product today. In fact, it's a $20 billion dollar business and the Mexican government doesn't have to do anything to get the money. Sounds to me as though both the US AND the Mexican government are exploiting these people.

If we really wanted to help the illegals, we would encourage the Mexican government to develop jobs and industries that would allow the illegals to stay at home with their families, with jobs that allowed them to provide for those families. Instead, by allowing them to come here and pretending that they don't exist, we injure Americans AND the illegals. Because the illegals will work for lower wages, American wages in certain industries are kept artificially low - so low that the Americans who would ordinarily perform these jobs can't afford to live on the wages being paid to the illegals. Instead, we get platitudes and nonsense about "jobs that Americans won't do."

Perhaps you haven't noticed it but many of the illegals not only haven't assimilated, they have no intention of assimilating. They bring their culture and customs and refuse to honor or respect ours. They won't learn our language, demanding, instead, that we learn theirs. They gradually bring blight to the neighborhoods they occupy as they transform it from an American neighborhood into the type of neighborhood they left behind.

Taken on an individual basis, the illegals are mostly nice people but, as a group, they are an invading army whose fundamental intent is to take the southwestern US and return it to Mexico. If they were willing to come to America legally, assimilate and become part of this Republic, this would be very a different story. But, as criminals, they believe that they are entitled to walk in and make themselves at home. They aren't, anymore than if they personally walked into your house, sat down in your favorite chair, turned on the TV, told you to bring them a beer while they watch a Spanish language station and prevent you from watching football on your own TV.

But, take this a step further. Suppose that turnabout were fair play and you crossed illegally into Mexico, demanded that they speak English to you, etc., etc. How do you think it would turn out? According to Mexican law, you would be arrested and, eventually, deported. They wouldn't provide you with any of the treatment that they demand that we provide the illegals here.

America and the Statue of Liberty still stand for freedom and we still welcome those who want to come here legally. But no nation, particularly this one, will long survive when it allows itself to be invaded and settled by those whose intentions are not to be participants, but only squatters. And, by allowing people about whom we know nothing, especially in a post-9/11 world, to come unchallenged into the country, we are all at risk. Often, they carry diseases that have mostly been eliminated from the US for at least 60 years or more. And, who knows who is sneaking in with them disguised as Mexicans. We know of some al-Qaida members who have snuck into the country, but how many more are there that we DON'T know about?

These, david, are among the reasons that we cannot allow them to continue coming in . . . . . or to stay once they are discovered. They simply don't belong here and they are criminals.


551 posted on 02/23/2007 6:48:53 PM PST by DustyMoment (FloriDUH - proud inventors of pregnant/hanging chads and judicide!!)
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