Posted on 02/20/2007 11:48:27 AM PST by lizol
I was having a conversation with my mother about this yesterday. For the longest time, we've been listening to the "apologists" for Soviet misdeeds claim that Soviets weren't "Russian," and that the Soviet Union no longer exists. Why can't the Estonians simply tell the Russians that they are removing a "Soviet" statue? Problem solved.
I can understand wanting to remove Soviet era hooray-the-Soviets-are-so-good type propaganda monuments, but removing one to soldiers who died fighting the Nazis seems a little extreme to me. And then again the removal of the Nazis did essentially mark the beginning of Soviet occupation. Interesting. In the end I guess I'd have to be against it, simply due to the fact that they're disturbing war-dead and a monument to them, and that removing the monument and the tomb doesn't change what happened there.
Translation:
We saved you from the Nazis so you have no right to dishonor us despite years upon years of oppression, slavery, rape, and plunder. It was a fair trade for your 'freedom'.
Estonia was invaded by Stalin as one of the prizes of the Nazi-Soviet Pact.
See post 8. The Soviets invaded long before there were Nazis there. The monuments were a sham!
Heres's the short history of the Baltic countries during WWII. Remember the Soviet-Nazi Pact prior to the invasion of Poland? The tiny Baltic states were occupupied by the Soviets, aided by their fifth column collaborators in the Baltics.
Remember this, the SOVIETS invaded them first.
During the first days of the occupation anyone identified as a potential leader down to boy scout level was rounded-up and shipped to the gulags in Siberia, Government officials were tortured in the inimical Russian fashion. The bodies of most were never found. My father, age 15, missed the round-up because they had moved from the time the fifth columnists assembled their lists. (We have copies of the detetention/removal list.) My mother's father and two uncles did not fare so well.
So understand that when the NAZI armies invaded on their wy to Russia, it might be understandable that they would be viewed in a better light than the Russians.
And then the tide of Russians returned to complete their work. Little known in the west is that guerillas from the Baltics were still battling the Russians until the mid fifites. Google the relative populations of the Baltics and Russia to comprehend the overwhelming odds against the Balts.
So yeah, remove the f**** Soviet Army statutes whereever they are found outside of Russia. Not one of the bastards in the Red army has ever been brought up for war crimes or crimes against humanity. Not one single SOB....imagine that. Not one ruble of Russian, money has been paid out to the survivors of the Baltic Terror.
Estonia has been occupied over the centuries by Germany, Denmark, Germany, Sweden, Russia, Soviet Russia, (a brief post WWI independent period), Nazi Germany, and Soviet Russia, before becoming independent again. I was in Estonia last summer and as I talked to people, their hatred for the Soviets is still very fresh and raw.
Russians Soldiers fought for "Mother Russia" during WW II. They were pushed from behind by the NKVD troops (The real Soviets). Most Russian soldiers were conscripts fighting the Nazis. They did fight and die for the liberation of Estonia (Maybe not Liberation in the full sense of the word.) It was good faith on their part but what followed was not their doing. Its too bad that the word "Soviet" has to be used when the big push was for "Mother Russia". Most thought that when the war ended things would change in Russia. Unfortuately Stalin had different plans. This desire to remove the statue probably has its roots from before the war. Maybe they should put up another statue for the Germans too so they balance out? Didn't the Germans liberate them form the Soviets? I seem to remember photos of Estonians throwing flowers at them in June - July of 41. (I know many of the Estonians also joined the German Army and fought against the Soviets.)) If it was here, would we remove the staues of the Confederates? I think not. Like it or not, the Russian soldier is part of their history, they can't erase that.
Are you oblivious to the Communist holocaust that killed 100 million in the last century?
Were you the son of one below, would you want the killers commemorated with a statue outside your door?
http://www.lietuvos.net/istorija/communism/
Did someone say desecration?
http://www.lietuvos.net/istorija/communism/
Israel would not tolerate Nazi statues - why should the Baltic states or any other victim of the 100 million Communist holocaust
With a name like that, this guy has got to have a prominent role in the final Harry Potter book. ;)
The buried dead are beyond politics. The US has graveyards in several countries where we're not well liked.
"Like it or not, the Russian soldier is part of their history, they can't erase that."
Thats EXACTLY the problem - the 100 million that the RUSSIANS killed HAS BEEN ERASED.
When do we get the FIRST presecution for the RUSSIAN genocide.
"The US has graveyards in several countries where we're not well liked."
How dare you compare the US with the Kremlin - which killed 100 million in the last century.
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