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To: ancient_geezer
I am really intrigued about that department of energy paper - from the date, 1994 and the last time it was updated 2002, it kind of looks like both the Clinton and Bush43 administrations published a paper that mis-stated scientific consensus and misquoted the source.

In any case all the references I can find at this wretched hour say that the Greenhouse effect is responsible for the elevated temperatures on Venus.

I'm think that may be a rogue or seriously wrong paper. Even that same alternative energy section of the DOE site now seems to support human caused global warming

>>Assessments generally suggest that the Earth’s climate has warmed over the past century and that human activity affecting the atmosphere is likely an important driving factor. A National Research Council study dated May 2001 stated, “Greenhouse gases are accumulating in Earth’s atmosphere as a result of human activities, causing surface air temperatures and sub-surface ocean temperatures to rise. Temperatures are, in fact, rising. The changes observed over the last several decades are likely mostly due to human activities, but we cannot rule out that some significant part of these changes is also a reflection of natural variability.”<<

www.eia.doe.gov/neic/brochure/greenhouse/Chapter1

And the DOE site itself no longer mentions Venus - maybe they know they put out a bad paper but they are honest enough to not make it "disappear."

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But it was cool to see that and have a reason to look all this up. And I personally am not convinced about human causation as the largest cause of current global warming - but I'm convinced its a factor of some size on earth and its the major factor on Venus.
35 posted on 02/22/2007 2:10:18 AM PST by gondramB (It wasn't raining when Noah built the ark.)
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To: gondramB

>>Venus actually absorbs less solar energy than does the Earth. Rather, the high temperature is the result of a very efficient greenhouse effect that allows a small but significant fraction of the incident sunlight to penetrate to the surface (about 2.5%), but prevents all except a negligible fraction of the heat generated by the surface from escaping directly to space. See also Greenhouse effect.<<
So, it looks like that paper is contradicted by the same source they cited.

You had best look again, this time without the preconceived notions of what "THE" "greenhouse" effect means.

There is more than one mechanism at operation to cause atmospheric heating. "Greenhouse effect" is actually a big misnomer for what actually occurs in a planetary atmosphere as opposed to a real greenhouse. "Greenhouse" is merely a popularization of what is a very complex subject that has little to do with the physics of an actual greenhouse.

And the DOE site itself no longer mentions Venus - maybe they know they put out a bad paper but they are honest enough to not make it "disappear."

The orginal paper still sits in their archives on their FTP site in pdf form,

A link to it is at the bottom of this page:

http://www.eia.doe.gov/cneaf/solar.renewables/page/analysis_ren.html

Referenced as

Alternatives to Traditional Transportation Fuels: An Overview
This report provides (1) background information on alternative transportation fuels and replacement fuels, and (2) preliminary estimates of the use of these fuels and of alternative fueled vehicles.

The fact of nil water vapor on Venus does not go away. Nor does basic thermodynamics.

37 posted on 02/22/2007 8:20:13 AM PST by ancient_geezer (Don't reform it, Replace it.)
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