Posted on 02/16/2007 1:03:23 PM PST by SJackson
Heard the one about the Mormon President? The shaky prospects of Mitt RomneyGerard Baker There are so many minorities now in the crowded field for the 2008 US presidential election that daily news coverage of the race is starting to sound like one of those politically incorrect jokes from the 1970s. You’ll recall the kind: A woman, a black man, an Italian and a Mormon are in a plane over the ocean . . .
We have Hillary Clinton, credibly promising to be the first female to be President, Barack Obama, the first African-American in the White House, Rudolph Giuliani, the former New York Mayor, the first Italian-American (and occasional transvestite) to be President, and Mitt Romney, the former Massachusetts Governor, who launched his bid this week to be the first Mormon to get to the top.
Most of these potential firsts are lauded by commentators as representing great social and political progress. The exception is Mr Romney, whose potential breach of the infamous glass ceiling for members of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints is regarded with considerable misgivings.
In fact, while the consensus seems to be that Mrs Clinton and Mr Obama can overcome sexism and racism, it is considered more or less axiomatic that Mr Romney is in for a very hard time on account of his religion. On the face of it, this seems odd. If you’ve been brought up on a diet of the usual liberal media stereotype of America as a nation of woman and black-hating religious maniacs, you have a right to be puzzled when you hear that a devout God-fearing white man faces bigger hurdles than either a feminist or a liberal African-American. But as with everything in the US, it’s more complicated than that.
Mr Romney should be a highly appealing candidate. He has just finished his term as Governor of Massachusetts, where in the most Democratic state in the nation, he was an effective and quite popular Republican chief executive. He is clever and good-looking, and has made a ton of money for himself. He is completely untainted by any attachment to the awful foreign policy mistakes of the Bush Administration for the past six years.
But his religious problem is that to win the presidency he must first win the Republican nomination, a contest in which evangelical Protestants, especially in southern states, have a disproportionate influence. Evangelicals are deeply suspicious of Mormonism, which they regard as a heretical sect, and not even Christian in any proper sense of the term. They find the whole story of how Joseph Smith is supposed to have received a new set of scriptures and refounded the Christian church in America, how his followers drove westward, with their many wives and their curious underwear, all a bit strange (this, by the way from some of the same people who want it taught as a scientific fact that God created the world in precisely six days, Adam’s rib and all).
Popular conceptions about the Mormons do not help Mr Romney or his fellow believers either. Though the church officially forbids polygamy, it will never be able to dissociate itself from past practice. Some of its rituals also invite a nervous scepticism.
Mr Romney is battling to shake off the religious doubts. He insists that Americans care less about which brand of faith you practise than that you are a good and decent person who lives according to religious principles.
He tackles some of the concerns with good, self-deprecating humour. He once said in a debate over gay marriage that he believes that “marriage should only ever be between a man and a woman . . . and a woman . . . and a woman . . .” Privately, he has enjoyed pointing out that he, the supposed polygamy-loving Mormon, has been married to the same woman for 37 years, while his principal rivals for the Republican nomination have — so far — been married an average of 2.7 times each — the Catholic Mr Giuliani (three times), the Episcopalian Senator John McCain (twice) and the Baptist Newt Gingrich (three times).
What is especially odd about the Romney problem is that it is only recently that Mormonism seems to have become a political burden.
There have been Mormon candidates for the presidency in the past and it hardly came up as an issue. Senator Orrin Hatch from Utah — a bishop of the Mormon Church — ran for president in 2000. Senator Harry Reid, a Democrat of Nevada, and the Majority Leader of the Senate, is a Mormon. Mr Romney’s father, George, a Governor of Michigan, was for a time the leading contender for the Republican nomination in the 1968 election. It was not his religion that felled him then, but an infamous remark in a radio interview that he thought he had been “brainwashed” during a trip to Vietnam in 1967: a comment that, given what some deemed to be his slightly vacuous intellectual qualities, caused one commentator to note that his experience could not have amounted to more than a light rinse.
Religious-political prejudices have been overcome before, of course. Many Americans were once much more suspicious of Catholics. But John F. Kennedy proved that it’s perfectly all right to have papists govern, less I think because of his declaration that he would not take orders from the Pope, and more because in his frenetic extramarital activity he was able to demonstrate that he was really, deep down, reliably indistinguishable from any other politician.
In the end, I suspect the Mormon issue will not be the largest impediment to a Romney presidency. He has suspiciously changed his position on critical social issues, for example — when he was running for governor of heavily Democratic Massachusetts, he was pro-abortion; now he is running for the Republican presidential nomination, he says he is anti-abortion.
Iraq, too, could hurt him. So far his approach seems to be the Basil Fawlty strategy — “Don’t mention the war!” He gives long campaign speeches without a reference to Iraq. But in what looks likely to be a foreign-policy dominated election, he will surely not be able to get away with that, and his inexperience in the national security field will not help either.
In the meantime, expect to hear a lot more about Mormonism in the next year or so than you will ever learn from those nice, smart young men who come and knock on your door.
And yet, the constitution forbids the religious litmus test doesn't it. Hmmmm.
"we've got fruits, nuts, and flakes, "
Nice one!
Males in power will always vote for polygamy.
"Males in power will always vote for polygamy."
Don't bet on on it. I have enough trouble getting along with the one wife I have now; if I had to deal with more than one, I KNOW they would all gang up on me, and I'd never get a moment's peace... ;)
It has been my privilege to work with Morman management and staff in several different corporate environments.
In every case, they were among (if not) the most honorable, honest and hard working, results-oriented groups of people I have ever worked with.
Based on my personal experience, I would trust a Morman's word beyond any other faith's.
Mitt Romney's religion is NOT an issue with me.
Different rules back then...
That is not LDS doctrine. You neither understand the Mormon doctrine or comprehend the ways of God. Nor do I. His ways are not our ways. BTW, he is the God of many planets and worlds, nto jsut ours.
Hebrews 11:3
Through faith we understand that the worlds were framed by the word of God, so that things which are seen were not made of things which do appear.
Hebrews 1:2
Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;
You're right on that one.
Many mainstream "Christian" churches have drifted from the teachings of the Bible and given up the simple truths therein for moral relativism, fuzzy logic, gay clergy, abortion on demand NQA, environmentalism, multiculturalism, and so forth.
It's ironic that Mormonism is one of the few denominations today that preserves the oldtime "Christian" values of morality, chastity, integrity, and the distinction between right and wrong.
I am talking about what the Bible says, not what Mormon writings say. And you also know better than to think that all Mormon doctrine is in Mormon scriptures.
Is it not true that the ultimate goal of a Mormon is to become a god?
Is it not true that who you term as God was once a human according to Mormon doctrine?
Is it not true that Mormons believe Native Americans are a lost tribe of Isreal? Is it not true that Mormons consider Jesus and Satan as brothers?
Is it not true that Mormons reject the Holy Trinity?
Is it not true that Mormons believe that there was a civilization that rivaled that of Europe in North America?
Is it not true that up until 1978, black men were not allowed into the order of Melchizedek?
These are just a very few problems that I have with Mormonism, especially from my disaffected Lutheran convert friend.
The fact of the matter is that I HAVE looked into your beliefs for myself and I also happen to know that many Mormons, especially converts are not told of all the aspects of Mormonism until they get deeper and deeper into the religion.
His limo was escorted by missionaries on bicycles?
btt
>>If you are a Christian then I am not a Christian as a Baptist.
I’m sorry you feel that way; I believe we are both Christians because we both believe that Jesus Christ was born of Mary, a virgin. We both believe that Salvation comes only through the love Jesus showed for us when he took upon him our sins and Died upon the cross. This is the essence of Christianity, now as to which “Christian church is true… Well, that is another discussion entirely, but we believe in Christ, we are Christians.
>>Why? Because you believe that Lucifer and Jesus are brothers.
I also believe that you and I and Jesus are brothers. Indeed all mankind are brothers.
>>I do not. I also do not believe that God has a human body, like you believe.
So, exactly what did Jesus do with his body after he was resurrected? Do you believe the resurrection was temporary? I can also quote you early Christians who agree with us, like say John the beloved’s grandson, Hippolytus.
>>LDS says that they are the TRUE Christian Church.
Show me a church that claims to be the false Christian church. Now that would be a unique position.
>>Well Sorry, they are not.
Grin, do I really need to respond to this unsupported supposition?
>>They teach the opposite of what the Bible teaches.
Actually Mormonism can be shown to be in closer agreement with the Bible than many so called Acceptable “Christian” Religions.
>>the Book of Mormon is provably wrong, ie, Native Americans are a lost tribe of Israel. DNA proves otherwise.
LOL, I can show experts that completely debunk this as well (basically, you are assuming facts not in evidence) You can find experts who come to your conclusion, I can find similar experts, the difference is I can find experts who are not Mormon, where you will not find any Mormon experts who agree with you.
This is really pathetic, you post on this forum with no apparent knowledge of actual Mormon belief, yet you want to be held up as knowledgeable on the subject. Study, actually talk to a Mormon, you might learn some thing.
Conservatives are supposed to be rational, rationality is based on logic, and there is no logic in your post. You do not sound like a conservative. Why are you here?
>>I don't really care to discuss theology with a Mormon.
Wise decision, Grin.
Mormonism is heresy pure and simple...
Jesus was a heretic according to the Jews, it’s what the Sanhedrin convicted Jesus of, remember? So pardon me if I don’t react as you think I should when you call me a heretic.
but I would still vote for Romney if he was the alternative to Hillary.
I am hard pressed to think of someone I would not vote for if they were running against her hindness. I personally think the author of this is right on. Can’t the party do better than the current crop of conservative wannabees? (Mitt is not a conservative in my view, and I would rather vote for a non-Mormon who was a conservative.)
It’s not like we are electing a pope, political philosophy is way more important than anything else, so where have all of the conservatives suddenly gone?
Can’t this discussion be about politics? Leave your unfounded religious bigotry home where it belongs.
>>Ok, how's this:
>>And a proponent of the false prophets Joseph Smith and Brigham Young to boot. Nyet!
Much better! (Grin)
>>Actually, my anti-mormonism is not what you think, on a personal level I like Mormons fine.
I guess you are right, you could have fooled me.
>>Its the Mormon DOCTRINE, which is totally derived from Joseph Smith
>>Mormonism's (false) prophet, I am 100% against. Jesus warned us about false
>>prophets.
So, can I assume you have actually read the Book of Mormon? No? so you are taking someone else’s word on the “Fact” that we have a perverted doctrine? If so, then you are no better than the sheeple who believe ths MSM without fact checking them.
>>I can't trust someone in the oval office, who has to make judgment calls every day,
>>who has no better judgment than to believe in such a charletan as Joseph Smith?
The day we have a religious litmus test for president is the day we cease to be Americans. As fro gullibility, well, there are many who think anyone with religion must be a “Rube”. Your patriotism, I can respect, but you have a lot to learn about Mormons, and tact in discussing religion for that matter.
Go with God.
>>And yet, the constitution forbids the religious litmus test doesn't it. Hmmmm.<<
Not for individual voters. We each have a right to pursue whatever knowledge we can glean from a candidates past and beliefs and make a voting decision based on that, even if the individual voter is a racist or klansman.
>>Well said. I think those who doubt we are Christian would be better off to forget that
>>foolishness and try to find out the ways in which we are like them... After all, it's the
>>serious liberals (and the Devil who drives them) who profit from the attitude and the
>>dissension.
Thank you!
What really bothers me is that the MSM fomented this “Religious Test” in this race, and there seem to be a lot of otherwise intelligent conservatives that are willing to follow their lead on this. What are they thinking?
>>Well the problem is that foundationally, you are not Christians. I would think
>>foolishness is something like believing you will get your own planet when you die.
Speaking of foolishness, when did Mormons start teaching that you “Get your own planet when you die?” Simple, they don’t. teach that. We do however believe that God has promised us “All that he hath”
>>Where does it say that in the Bible? Oh wait, it doesn't say that in the Bible.
Whew! For a moment there, I thought maybe we were not in agreement with the Bible.
LOL!
Your post is an excellent example of why someone who does not know much about a religion, should not pontificate about why it is “Wrong”
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