Posted on 02/02/2007 8:55:08 AM PST by dashing doofus
Who, on average, is better paid—public school teachers or architects? How about teachers or economists? You might be surprised to learn that public school teachers are better paid than these and many other professionals. According to the Bureau of Labor Statistics, public school teachers earned $34.06 per hour in 2005, 36% more than the hourly wage of the average white-collar worker and 11% more than the average professional specialty or technical worker
(Excerpt) Read more at manhattan-institute.org ...
Then, how much should a soldier in Iraq make?
The private sector guys in Iraq are doing quite well I hear.
I don't think this is teacher bashing. I think good teachers should be paid MORE in exchange for scrapping of tenure system, a switch to defined contribution retirement plans, and pay for performance.
Most of us had teachers. I had some great ones, and some truly god-awful ones who just didn't care, and it was obvious. Why not pay the better teachers more than the marginal ones, and fire those who just aren't willing or able to do this difficult job?
That was a little higher than the starting pay in my old school district on LI. But the AVERAGE was $85K per year, and many teachers make over $100K.
I'm not saying that many teachers are the only ones who don't get paid what they are worth... I'm simply stating that anyone who thinks that all/most teachers are overpaid because they work 30 hours a week, only have to read from an answer key, and have the summer off are complete idiots :-)
What's the cost of living on LI like these days? Can someone live within a reasonable distance of say, Oyster Bay, on $50,000 a year?
No. You'd live in subsidized housing in that case. Of course, the primary reason that the cost of living on LI is so high is because of the taxes. And most of the taxes go to pay town/county/school district/water district/library district/ police district employees and retirees.
So, this becomes a kind of cicular argument: the salaries have to be high because the taxes are high, which drives the taxes higher, which means the salaries must be increased.
Your welcome. I didn't mention the things that you did regarding how teachers are treated, but thank you for including those facts. I also didn't mention that with my position I must write up psych reports for each student I assess, and that the reports take approximately 2.5 hours for each (that includes reviewing a student's records, scoring the tests, analyzing the data, and diagnosing learning disabilities, all of which are discussed within the report). In order to accomplish the assessments on time I must write my reports after the school day. I write up on average around 125 reports per year. Most of them after my contract hours. Then we have the meetings with the parents. Many of those meetings go beyond the contract day, as in the case of the one I attended yesterday which ended at 5:30pm. That's two hours beyond my contract day. Then I have to go home and work on other things for the next day. It's a never ending quest. Teachers have anywhere from 20 to more than 30 students (elementary school) or 180 plus per day (Middle and High school) for which they have to grade papers and tests (not to mention make up the tests) which they cannot do during their contract hours. So, those who complain about teachers asking for better pay for what they do just have no idea what it is a teacher has to do.
I agree totally. I know teachers and it is a very, very challenging job. The ones I am friends with agree with me that there are quite a few teachers who are just doing the minimum, if that, and milking the system.
Yet the good teachers and the bad teachers are compensated identically, based upon their seniority. A horrendous system, reminiscent of East Germany, IMO....
I can understand your comment about the tenure system. However, you need to keep in mind that school districts, without some protection for a teacher in place, could eliminate a teacher for any reason if tenure did not exist. Granted, there are teachers who should be removed, and tenure gets in the way. But, without that level of protection any teacher, good or not, could be at the mercy of the district without tenure. That would severely change the dynamics of how things are done within a given school district and actually result in a denigration of public education far worse than what we see today. I would be in favor of some sort of system that would provide a greater degree of teacher accountability for their responsibilities, but not the elimination of tenure in it's entirety.
My wife teaches in NC and, when she complains about the pay, I have to remind her of the excellent medical and retirement benefits and the fact that she is only working for working ten months each year.
"I'm simply stating that anyone who thinks that all/most teachers are overpaid because they work 30 hours a week, only have to read from an answer key, and have the summer off are complete idiots :-)"
Bears repeating, far too many have that ridiculous notion!
In the 12 plus years I've worked in public education in California I must admit I've heard far worse than your example given here. There are teachers who should be doing something else. I've worked with some. But these are, in general, the exception rather than the rule. Most of the teachers I work with have children, and many have children with exceptional needs (Learning Disabled). These teachers have an understanding and a compassion for parents which lead them to realize that not every thing is black and white when it comes to the backgrounds and behaviors of families. My rule of thumb is that if you have a negative comment regarding a child or their parents, keep it to yourself because I won't let it slide.
"Granted, there are teachers who should be removed, and tenure gets in the way. But, without that level of protection any teacher, good or not, could be at the mercy of the district without tenure. That would severely change the dynamics of how things are done within a given school district and actually result in a denigration of public education far worse than what we see today."
Finally, the other side of the story!
Another thought....that may be the hourly wage, but teacher do not get paid in the summer and very few good paying jobs will hire someone for only 6 weeks. So, to a degree, you DO have to look at their yearly salary and not just the hourly.
Boo hoo. Here's a startling revelation-
Nurses aids have to pay for certification too, and they only make $10-15 an hour.
First, thank you for what you do. I don't think the article is in anyway denigrating your profession or how hard it is. And I know that regional salary/benefit discrepencies are huge in this country, which the article does not point out.
I'm curious about a few things. Would you agree that there are some teachers who are not as conscientious as you? If so, are you better compensated than they are?
I ask because two high school teachers I know work very hard (for 9 mos/yr), but are infuriated by the existing system. They admit to me privately that some teachers deserve to be fired, yet the union makes this impossible unless the teacher does something aggregious like come into school drunk or touch a kid inappropriately. Even then, it would be a year-long legal hassle with huge costs to the district/taxpayer to terminate the teacher.
I clicked on this thread just to read the whining teachers crying poverty. I was not disappointed. Thanks, crybabies.
"However, you need to keep in mind that school districts, without some protection for a teacher in place, could eliminate a teacher for any reason if tenure did not exist."
I would disagree here. This was clearly true long ago, and the tenure system was designed to insulate teachers from being fired for political reasons, say for example if the principal was a die-hard Republican and the teacher was a Dem.
But this is no longer the case. Modern labor laws in this country work just fine for the private sector -- age discrimination, sex discrimination, etc. -- and there is no reason to think that in this day and age a teacher's union is necessary to protect against a capricious firing.
"I clicked on this thread just to read the whining teachers crying poverty. I was not disappointed. Thanks, crybabies"
Come on. There are lots of good, hardworking teachers. Some are underpaid. Lumping people together into a class and branding them is for the Dems. ;-)
The NEA is the bad guy here.
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