$34.06 an Hour -- That's how much the average public school teachers makes. Is that "underpaid"?

The Wall Street Journal ^ | February 2, 2007 | Jay P. Greene and Marcus A. Winters

[Zakeet]

Who, on average, is better paid--public school teachers or architects? How about teachers or economists? You might be surprised to learn that public school teachers are better paid than these and many other professionals. According to the Bureau of Labor Statistics, public school teachers earned $34.06 per hour in 2005, 36% more than the hourly wage of the average white-collar worker and 11% more than the average professional specialty or technical worker.

In the popular imagination, however, public school teachers are underpaid. "Salaries are too low. We all know that," noted First Lady Laura Bush, expressing the consensus view. "We need to figure out a way to pay teachers more." Indeed, our efforts to hire more teachers and raise their salaries account for the bulk of public school spending increases over the last four decades. During that time per-pupil spending, adjusted for inflation, has more than doubled; overall we now annually spend more than $500 billion on public education.

The perception that we underpay teachers is likely to play a significant role in the debate to reauthorize No Child Left Behind. The new Democratic majority intends to push for greater education funding, much of which would likely to go toward increasing teacher compensation. It would be beneficial if the debate focused on the actual salaries teachers are already paid.

It would also be beneficial if the debate touched on the correlation between teacher pay and actual results. To wit, higher teacher pay seems to have no effect on raising student achievement. Metropolitan areas with higher teacher pay do not graduate a higher percentage of their students than areas with lower teacher pay.

In fact, the urban areas with the highest teacher pay are famous for their abysmal outcomes.

[freedomfiter2]

I forgot. There are still many small farms that don't show a lot of profit as well.

[Ro_Thunder]

Definitely. I make it a point to ask my janitorial staff their name, address them by name, say hello, good bye, etc. In other words, show COMMON COURTESY.

I do the same to wait staff, which sort of freaks them out, of course, but that's a different story.

[Freee-dame]

A secondary school teacher was required to work 750 hours per year. That works out to a little over 4 hours per day for about 180 days (40 weeks).

Is the definition of "work" actually instructing the full class? That is probably the 4 hours a day made up of 5 classes of 50 minutes each. That is certainly not the entire time that a secondary school teacher is working. There is also planning, preparing lessons, writing tests, grading papers, tutoring individual students, calling or meeting with parents, counselors or administrators, record keeping, etc.

I do not think that teachers are underpaid. I would like to compare,however, a conscientious academic subject teacher's 50 hours a week for 40 weeks with a person who punches a time clock 40 hours a week for 50 weeks.

[steadfastconservative]

Teachers are not poor. They work 9 months of the year, which gives them the opportunity to work seasonal jobs during the summer or stay home with their families. Most working people don't have those options. Moreover, they have excellent pensions and benefits. Here in Ohio, a teacher can retire, start collecting a pension, and then go back to work in another district while still collecting pension benefits.

Teachers have no right to cry poverty. They know how much their profession pays before they go into it. If someone can't afford to live on a teacher's salary, he should go into another profession.

Public school teachers are paid by the taxpayers. But taxpayers can only afford to pay so much money for public education. Property taxes have become very high in many parts of the country because of tax increases that have been repeatedly passed to benefit public schools. At some point, taxes are going to become so high that people are going to start losing their homes. But, hey, as long as the teachers get to earn a hefty salary for 9 months' work, who cares how burdensome these taxes become?

[moog]

Teachers are not poor. They work 9 months of the year, which gives them the opportunity to work seasonal jobs during the summer or stay home with their families. Most working people don't have those options. Moreover, they have excellent pensions and benefits. Here in Ohio, a teacher can retire, start collecting a pension, and then go back to work in another district while still collecting pension benefits. Teachers have no right to cry poverty. They know how much their profession pays before they go into it. If someone can't afford to live on a teacher's salary, he should go into another profession. Public school teachers are paid by the taxpayers. But taxpayers can only afford to pay so much money for public education. Property taxes have become very high in many parts of the country because of tax increases that have been repeatedly passed to benefit public schools. At some point, taxes are going to become so high that people are going to start losing their homes. But, hey, as long as the teachers get to earn a hefty salary for 9 months' work, who cares how burdensome these taxes become?

I have tried to be objective on my comments here. No, teachers aren't poor, but let's not go claiming they are rich either. Yes, teachers "work" 9 months out of the year, but as many have pointed out, some of us work much more than the hours that are stated. I personally don't think you can pay for those extra hours because they are not "concrete" hours, meaning they can't be measured exactly by a time clock. As far as benefits--it depends upon the area and that goes too for the pay. I agree that in some areas teachers are probably overpaid, in others they aren't. People who can afford decent homes, can afford to go on a number of vacations each year, can afford some of the other "luxuries" like swimming pools, and such shouldn't be complaining much either. I know exactly what I was getting into when I decided to become a teacher. Nonetheless, people shouldn't be saying we're rich and we shouldn't be saying we're dirt poor. I get MORE upset, though, when people with CHILDREN and reasonable circumstances start complaining that about what they don't have. That to me, who has wanted children badly for 13 years (I am working towards that, but it will still be several years) is a big affront. Some don't realize what a privilege they have. I like the use of the pronoun "him." There aren't many of us male elementary teachers around. :) I hear you on the property taxes. I think there are non-tax financing options here too. We teachers pay taxes too. I live in an area where we spend among the lowest in the nation on public education, but I still don't want my own taxes to go up much. For me, it is the ATTITUDE that is just as important. I am one who tries to work with people rather than against them. I enjoy the many good parents and students I come into contact with each year. I try to bring in people from the community to my classroom each year. AND I remember to say thank you to the many good parents I know here because after all, it's my neighborhood too (I give out a go-gator award where I leave a gatorade and a personal note to the parent, telling them why I am thankful for having them in my neighborhood--so far well over 200 parents and some very wonderful experiences). I have worked hard to contribute to and serve my community, and in many ways am just getting started. I don't have many talents, but I can do what I can to make my little corner of the world a better place. It doesn't help when people try to place the blame on one thing, focus on the negative, and such. What DOES help is a good attitude about things and seeing how one can help out--spending a little time and effort without so much complaining. I apply that notion to ALL parties actually. As far as losing homes though, I think it has just as much to do with living within our means as with anything AND the price of the home itself (land values) as with anything too. Property taxes are indeed a part of it too though. It's interesting that we grew up with 8 kids and 2 parents in a four bedroom house that was fairly small. In my area now, it seems like every kid has to have his/her room and there has to be quite a bit of extra perks. I never had my own room, but I did enjoy sharing it with my little brother. I hope to someday just to be able to raise ONE child. I won't have time to complain as I'll be too busy thanking that child and the man upstairs for being and providing such miracles.

[moog]

Geez, you'd think I'd know what formatting was. :)

Teachers are not poor. They work 9 months of the year, which gives them the opportunity to work seasonal jobs during the summer or stay home with their families. Most working people don't have those options. Moreover, they have excellent pensions and benefits. Here in Ohio, a teacher can retire, start collecting a pension, and then go back to work in another district while still collecting pension benefits.

Teachers have no right to cry poverty. They know how much their profession pays before they go into it. If someone can't afford to live on a teacher's salary, he should go into another profession.

Public school teachers are paid by the taxpayers. But taxpayers can only afford to pay so much money for public education. Property taxes have become very high in many parts of the country because of tax increases that have been repeatedly passed to benefit public schools. At some point, taxes are going to become so high that people are going to start losing their homes. But, hey, as long as the teachers get to earn a hefty salary for 9 months' work, who cares how burdensome these taxes become?

I have tried to be objective on my comments here. No, teachers aren't poor, but let's not go claiming they are rich either. Yes, teachers "work" 9 months out of the year, but as many have pointed out, some of us work much more than the hours that are stated. I personally don't think you can pay for those extra hours because they are not "concrete" hours, meaning they can't be measured exactly by a time clock.

As far as benefits--it depends upon the area and that goes too for the pay. I agree that in some areas teachers are probably overpaid, in others they aren't.

People who can afford decent homes, can afford to go on a number of vacations each year, can afford some of the other "luxuries" like swimming pools, and such shouldn't be complaining much either. I know exactly what I was getting into when I decided to become a teacher. Nonetheless, people shouldn't be saying we're rich and we shouldn't be saying we're dirt poor.

I get MORE upset, though, when people with CHILDREN and reasonable circumstances start complaining that about what they don't have. That to me, who has wanted children badly for 13 years (I am working towards that, but it will still be several years) is a big affront. Some don't realize what a privilege they have.

I like the use of the pronoun "he." There aren't many of us male elementary teachers around. :)

I hear you on the property taxes. I think there are non-tax financing options here too. We teachers pay taxes too. I live in an area where we spend among the lowest in the nation on public education, but I still don't want my own taxes to go up much. For me, it is the ATTITUDE that is just as important. I am one who tries to work with people rather than against them. I enjoy the many good parents and students I come into contact with each year. I try to bring in people from the community to my classroom each year. AND I remember to say thank you to the many good parents I know here because after all, it's my neighborhood too (I give out a go-gator award where I leave a gatorade and a personal note to the parent, telling them why I am thankful for having them in my neighborhood--so far well over 200 parents and some very wonderful experiences). I have worked hard to contribute to and serve my community, and in many ways am just getting started. I don't have many talents, but I can do what I can to make my little corner of the world a better place.

It doesn't help when people try to place the blame on one thing, focus on the negative, and such. What DOES help is a good attitude about things and seeing how one can help out--spending a little time and effort without so much complaining. I apply that notion to ALL parties actually.

As far as losing homes though, I think it has just as much to do with living within our means as with anything AND the price of the home itself (land values) as with anything too. Property taxes are indeed a part of it too though. It's interesting that we grew up with 8 kids and 2 parents in a four bedroom house that was fairly small. In my area now, it seems like every kid has to have his/her room and there has to be quite a bit of extra perks. I never had my own room, but I did enjoy sharing it with my little brother.

I hope to someday just to be able to raise ONE child. I won't have time to complain as I'll be too busy thanking that child and the man upstairs for being and providing such miracles.

[moog]

Definitely. I make it a point to ask my janitorial staff their name, address them by name, say hello, good bye, etc. In other words, show COMMON COURTESY. I do the same to wait staff, which sort of freaks them out, of course, but that's a different story.

GOOD FOR YOU!! Showing common courtesy to others is a basic value my mother and father taught us. I appreciate you for doing that.

[DaGman]

I'm not into bashing teachers. It's interesting that the article cites little more than "studies" to back up their assertion about teacher pay. Nothing more than a vapor article. Give hard numbers or keep your opinion to yourself because that's all you've got is an opinion. "I think" teachers make $34.06 an hour is hardly worthy of the WSJ.

[moog]

According to my wife too endangered. She thinks more kids need the male influence in the early childhood stage of eduction. He you described me except I'm not short and "teach" at a much later and less stressful stage, of the education process. One of our 2nd. year med. students came up to me at the first of last term and asked me if I was Mrs. X's husband. He had her in Kindergarten. Made me feel real old because even I still remember her talking about him (fondly). Unlike her I can't recognize the faces of a 5 y/o in an adult much less remember names. It always amazes me how ya'll effect kids so much that they will stop you on the street to say hello and be remembered. Even with our Grad.Students we don't have that kind of interaction in most cases.

My first first graders are in eighth grade now and many are just thriving. Even my lowest student I had in my first year of first grade teaching is doing wonderful. I LOVE to find out how the kids I've had are doing. I haven't been able to keep track of all of them, but have loved to hear how others are doing.

I AGREE strongly with your wife and that's ONE affirmative action program I would support--more male teachers in the early grades (yes, I know there's issues to consider, but that's a topic for another day).

We've had new teachers come in who've had another teacher at the school in an early grade. That'd freak me out. I feel old enough already. But teaching first grade still keeps me young. I like that you can act stupid and still they laugh. I believe in blending humor and learning and so far it's been pretty good. :)

Thanks for your comments. :)

[moog]

When we compare education levels, there would indeed be some different statistics and things would be different for different areas.

[moog]

NOW, you have hit one of my major concerns. I grew up in an agricultural area and my dad has been involved in agriculture in some way or another for many years. I am worried about the demise of the small family farm, but ALSO about losing good farmland to developments and such. There's only so much of that to go around. If we can't feed our own people later on, what will we do?

I think farmers are among the most NOBLE people around and I try to have 1 or 2 come to my class every year. I'm afraid the kids are losing the perspective on some of our rural roots and what people have sacrificed. Food doesn't come from just a grocery store shelf. There's a big process before it gets there.

AND I absolutely hate it when a farmer who has been there for many years is forced to move because some other newer residents say it "stinks." That has been the plight of many dairy farmers here. There are getting to be fewer left.

I admire anyone who goes into farming. I'm not going to make the narrow-minded statement to a farmer who is down on his luck, that he knew what he was getting into. They are some of the hardest workers and most underpaid and underappreciated people there are.

THANK YOU FOR THE REMINDER.

[Riverman94610]

I have a "regular"job and sub part time.
On my regular job,if an employee walks into the office and calls the supervisor a bitch,throws things at other workers and proclaims,"I ain't doin' s--- today".security will be called and that employee will be on his way to termination.
If a kid comes into my classroom and exibits identical behavior,he will be sent to the office and be back in ten minutes with a note saying"counseled about behavior.Call parent if it happens again".
Teachers EARN that money!

[freedomfiter2]

You're right about the farmers. A lot of them are hanging on by the wife working away to pay the bills when the milk prices are down and to provide health insurance.

Thanks for teaching your children about farming. A lot of the problems they have are due to people in general not having an understanding of how farming attects us all.

[moog]

You're right about the farmers. A lot of them are hanging on by the wife working away to pay the bills when the milk prices are down and to provide health insurance. Thanks for teaching your children about farming. A lot of the problems they have are due to people in general not having an understanding of how farming attects us all.

Thank YOU for the reminder. I will redouble my efforts now because of it. Last year, a farmer brought a HUGE tractor to the school. My boys, especially were impressed with it.

Much of my heritag is in farming. My grandpa on one side was a rancher while my other grandpa, a lifelong educator, was also a farmer too. We learned how to work by having a big garden too. My dad also would often take us to work in the summer at the experiment station during the years he was an extension agent. I've always marvelled on his knowledge, and the repoire he had with some farmers. With his knowledge of land issues, he was able to arrange for purchase of land for our towns baseball fields and was able to determine a location for the water tower there as well. He even has helped out with the new high school location. I remember also things like going to the commercial farm he first worked at and loving to be there with my dad. I remember helping to weigh big sugar beet trucks too.

I wouldn't be anywhere without farming and that's why I appreciate them so much. The farmers where I grew up were wonderful people. The ones I've had come to my classroom are the same way.

Thanks again.

[Mr J]

Another "teachers are overpaid" thread! ;)

Let's talk about Tim the typical teacher.

Tim gets driven to work each morning in a stretch limousine. He eats breakfast on the road -- usually caviar and pate, washed down with a $1,500 bottle of Dom Perignon. Ever fastidious, he eats carefully -- he doesn't want to stain his $2,000 Versace suit, though he has closet full of them. If he thinks he's running late, he'll check the time on his $25,000 Rolex. After a hard day sitting in the staff room smoking smuggled Cuban cigars -- $500 apiece -- Tim makes a quick call to his personal pilot to make sure his Gulfstream 5 is fueled and ready for a weekend getaway to the French Riviera.

Teaching is tough for Tim!

;)

[Pure Country]

My wife was a highschool teacher before she quit to raise a family. Here in northern PA I just saw an ad for the local district paying $82,000 to start. The average family income in our county is under $30,000.

Sounds like maybe it was a typo in your newspaper or maybe they were talking about the Superintendent's job. If not, send me the ad and I'll get my resume in right away! LOL........NOT!

[MikeGranby]

> There are LOTS of ways to judge "worth."

Name one that is better than the market.

[moog]

A person's character and how much he/she goes the extra mile, how honest one is, the amount of joy one gets out of life or what he or she does, the personal progress one makes in something, one's personal ethics and morals, one's attitude towards things, how one learns virtues that he or she uses later to benefit others, being fair-minded, treating others with common courtesy, working together to find common solutions, the satisfaction of a job well done, being thankful for what one has, and so on and so on.

I realize all of these are subjective, but to me, I'll take an honest man who makes much less than the dishonest one who makes much more. Would you rather take some hoity-toity liberal with a PHD who puports to know everything about politics or a principle-minded conservative who may not be a professor, but who lives according to his values?

Too often today we judge a person by his/her position in life, how much money he or she makes, and so on. I tend to look to other factors too.

[moog]

Another "teachers are overpaid" thread! ;) Let's talk about Tim the typical teacher. Tim gets driven to work each morning in a stretch limousine. He eats breakfast on the road -- usually caviar and pate, washed down with a $1,500 bottle of Dom Perignon. Ever fastidious, he eats carefully -- he doesn't want to stain his $2,000 Versace suit, though he has closet full of them. If he thinks he's running late, he'll check the time on his $25,000 Rolex. After a hard day sitting in the staff room smoking smuggled Cuban cigars -- $500 apiece -- Tim makes a quick call to his personal pilot to make sure his Gulfstream 5 is fueled and ready for a weekend getaway to the French Riviera. Teaching is tough for Tim! ;)

HAHAHAHAHA!!! Sounds like my typical day except it's a ten-year-old car--very standard with no tape deck even--(which is much better than when I walked or rode the bus for 10 + years). The watch is a $15 timex sports watch that does the job. The phone is a regular phone or pay phone. The cigars are nothing since I've never smoked. The "suit" is a pair of courdoroys and whichever decent shirt isn't dirty. :)The personal pilot is the cat. The "breakfast" is whatever is around the house or maybe something quick in the microwave (my meals are often well-thawed out).

As for "Tim," he's the Down's Syndrome man who helps in my class once a week. And he is worth more to me and my class than anyone could ever hope because he teaches us the simple lessons of life each and every week especially of the enjoyment one can have in life despite having many difficulties. His favorite saying is "I love my life." Each week, I have a new "Tim" story.

If he can enjoy life as he lives it, maybe I can too because my problems maybe aren't so bad after all and I am blessed with a LOT already. I want to be able to raise a child more than anything in the world, but haven't been able to enjoy that privilege yet. Yet, I have been blessed with wonderful students over the years and seeing countless miracles happen. I have people like Tim who teach me about the simple things in life. I get to serve my own community in many ways (I teach at my local neighborhood school) and be involved with wonderful people. I have what I need. In the next few months, I do face losing quite a bit of things. However, because God has given me so many blessings already, I'll manage.

It's nice to see there's good genuine people out there like you and I appreciate the humor. You'd be a good substitute teacher for my classroom. :)

[freedomfiter2]

Sounds like maybe it was a typo in your newspaper or maybe they were talking about the Superintendent's job. If not, send me the ad and I'll get my resume in right away! LOL........NOT!


The one position was a HS science teacher. That one caught my eye because that's what my wife is certified as. It's possible that the benefits were included.