Posted on 02/02/2007 5:20:28 AM PST by Zakeet
Who, on average, is better paid--public school teachers or architects? How about teachers or economists? You might be surprised to learn that public school teachers are better paid than these and many other professionals. According to the Bureau of Labor Statistics, public school teachers earned $34.06 per hour in 2005, 36% more than the hourly wage of the average white-collar worker and 11% more than the average professional specialty or technical worker.
In the popular imagination, however, public school teachers are underpaid. "Salaries are too low. We all know that," noted First Lady Laura Bush, expressing the consensus view. "We need to figure out a way to pay teachers more." Indeed, our efforts to hire more teachers and raise their salaries account for the bulk of public school spending increases over the last four decades. During that time per-pupil spending, adjusted for inflation, has more than doubled; overall we now annually spend more than $500 billion on public education.
The perception that we underpay teachers is likely to play a significant role in the debate to reauthorize No Child Left Behind. The new Democratic majority intends to push for greater education funding, much of which would likely to go toward increasing teacher compensation. It would be beneficial if the debate focused on the actual salaries teachers are already paid.
It would also be beneficial if the debate touched on the correlation between teacher pay and actual results. To wit, higher teacher pay seems to have no effect on raising student achievement. Metropolitan areas with higher teacher pay do not graduate a higher percentage of their students than areas with lower teacher pay.
In fact, the urban areas with the highest teacher pay are famous for their abysmal outcomes.
(Excerpt) Read more at opinionjournal.com ...
Some have a sweet deal, others don't. It really depends on where they are. I don't like all the complaining I hear teachers doing about salary, either. But not all teachers have these sweet deals. My husband teaches, albeit college. His subject matter changes constantly (classifications and nomenclature), so he doesn't assign a textbook which he feels are out of date by the time they're printed. He develops his own text through a database that he updates every semester. And distributes it free to students. I hope that he markets it soon, but his students have had a great deal for many years. He's as dedicated a professional as any you would find in any field. And he's not one of these people who "can't do" so he teaches. He "could do" what he teaches students to go out and do and make a lot more money than he ever will. But he wants to teach because he loves it. His primary complaint is the general lack of respect toward teachers. After reading these threads, I can't say that I blame him. He might be an exception, but I know a lot of the teachers where he teaches. Most of them are excellent.
Its sort of like those innumerable lawyer bashing threads.
In my state, you can start teaching after only a undergraduate degree, but within a certain amount of years you must obtain a master's degree in order to remain certified to teach. During those first years, teachers are not making $34/hr.
I agree that tenure rights for teachers should be limited, if not abolished, but I don't think the pay itself is out of line if you want quality educators. If you want teachers with high IQs you have to pay them enough to that it makes sense to choose teaching math to 25 12-years-old over become a pediatrician.
She makes right at $38,000 a year, before taxes, etc.
This is in Texas, and very rural, small 3A school district.
Teachers have minor or no problem with the curriculum these days the state and feds dictate it. Most people did not go to school or went to one that is much different at the time of the founding of this country.
SO maybe I don't get your point, enlighten me.
Excellent response! Yes, professionals put in extra hours, even if it is to keep caught up. I do think that some teachers hurt themselves by insisting that they get paid for all this. Professionals just do that. I also think that teachers get paid too much in some areas (relative to what other similary paid professionals get paid) and not enough in others.
This is the second thread in several days where people who do not know what they are talking about but think they do just criticize teachers. It drives me crazy. I'm the first to criticize them when I see issues that they need called on. But there has just been this oft-spoken belief that teachers only work the hours they are in front of a classroom and nothing could be further from the truth for most teachers.
Hazardous duty pay
You are delusional. Teachers do not just work, "worst case? 8:00 to 3:00" as you state. That is the BEST case. Those are the hours they are in school. But teachers are also expected to prepare tests, grade tests, meet with parents, etc. I would say 10 hours a day is average, or perhaps even below average. 12 hours a day, and quite a number of hours on the weekend is more typical!
But with all that said, the wage should be what the school is willing to pay, and what the teachers are willing to accept for the job.
It's not the salaries that are the busting budgets. It's the pensions and bennies...
That's one problem right there. Teachers should have a problem with the curricula these days, because much of it isn't designed to teach basic knowledge and understanding, and the results, by and large, prove that point to be true.
Most people did not go to school or went to one that is much different at the time of the founding of this country.
I thought your original point was that educational failures were not the fault of teachers, but rather some problems or other at home. Since many children were taught at home during the 17th and 18th centuries, and most homeschooled children today don't have these educational failures that we see in public schools today, what's your point?
The teachers I know do have a problem with the curriculum. As I said in another post, "It's the Politicians".
We no longer have spare the rod spoil the child we have touch the child and wait for the lawsuit. Public schools don't have any choice in which kids they have to teach. They have to take them as they come. We don't hear about the failures of home schooling as there are no standards and no reporting that I know of.
Some educational failures are the fault of teachers as many deaths can be blamed on doctors, planes crash because of pilots, and so on and so on. For example if Preachers were paid by their success rate on convincing people that abortion was wrong then we would most likely have to change their name to paupers.
I don't think that you can compare the 17th. and 18th. with the 20th. and 21st. century. This is like comparing apples to oranges. If you could read the Bible back then you were considered educated.
First you tell me teachers have no problem, or only minor problems, with the curricula. Then you tell me they do have a problem with the curricula.
I'm not going to chase your positions around.
Doctors and lawyers can make a lot more than teachers. As for engineers, it's a good question; probably a fair number don't make 70K although a lot make that or more. It probably comes down to people following their interests rather than what they perceive as the easiest route to a degree.
Besides, the education school curriculum these days is insufferable for anyone who is not a committed socialist.
From your post I could make the assumption that you hate the self-employed in this country who are able to FReep whenever they please during the day and night ... but that would probably be incorrect.
I didn't read the article, but does the hourly rate take into account the amount of time teachers spend preparing lessons and grading? My wife started teaching last year (high school), and spends, on average, 2 hours every night and about 6 hours on weekends with lesson prep and grading.
Perhaps I am misunderstanding you ... but you seem to say that you are uniquely free to criticize teachers when you think they deserve it, but everyone else is clueless and shouldn't voice an opinion?
Don't forget the farmer-bashing threads.
Don't forget the farmer-bashing threads.
No doubt started by those cattlemen!
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