Posted on 02/02/2007 5:20:28 AM PST by Zakeet
Who, on average, is better paid--public school teachers or architects? How about teachers or economists? You might be surprised to learn that public school teachers are better paid than these and many other professionals. According to the Bureau of Labor Statistics, public school teachers earned $34.06 per hour in 2005, 36% more than the hourly wage of the average white-collar worker and 11% more than the average professional specialty or technical worker.
In the popular imagination, however, public school teachers are underpaid. "Salaries are too low. We all know that," noted First Lady Laura Bush, expressing the consensus view. "We need to figure out a way to pay teachers more." Indeed, our efforts to hire more teachers and raise their salaries account for the bulk of public school spending increases over the last four decades. During that time per-pupil spending, adjusted for inflation, has more than doubled; overall we now annually spend more than $500 billion on public education.
The perception that we underpay teachers is likely to play a significant role in the debate to reauthorize No Child Left Behind. The new Democratic majority intends to push for greater education funding, much of which would likely to go toward increasing teacher compensation. It would be beneficial if the debate focused on the actual salaries teachers are already paid.
It would also be beneficial if the debate touched on the correlation between teacher pay and actual results. To wit, higher teacher pay seems to have no effect on raising student achievement. Metropolitan areas with higher teacher pay do not graduate a higher percentage of their students than areas with lower teacher pay.
In fact, the urban areas with the highest teacher pay are famous for their abysmal outcomes.
(Excerpt) Read more at opinionjournal.com ...
"SO CHANGE JOBS."
I'm not the one who came here whining because my wife gets paid more and works less than most people.
Perhaps you could suggest to the other poster that, if his wife is unappy as a teacher, perhaps she could take her oh-so-valuable degree to the real world where she can expect to be treated far more harshly.
And I am changing jobs, jerk-wad. Not by choice but because I was laid off recently, effective March 31. Teacher-babe doesn't have to worry about that very much either.
All salaries are relative to perceived worth. Teachers are not valued while pro-athletes are. This is because most people don't want to do the job, because they remember teachers as someone who made them follow the rules and do homework, bad memory. Most guys would like to be a pro-, adoring fans, big bucks and women.
I'm always amazed at how many people of IQ's at the genius level we have. They all learned to read, do math and program computers on their own. No teacher needed or wanted. Believe it or not this lack of respect for teachers carries over into Med. School and Grad. School, just get me out so I can make money. I already know it all.
Not to pooh-pooh your example, but your wife gets two months off in the summer, minus the week she has to attend the class. Leaving aside that your school district seems to go extraordinarily far into the summer (most places end around memorial day), I think you forgot to count the two to three weeks off at Christmas, the week off at Thanksgiving, Spring Break, October break (which most schools get), Columbus Day, MLK Day, etc.
That adds up to three months--at the least.
And so in the summer you wife can spend all day at the golf course, on the tennis court, or at the beach?
Yeah, that's rough.
Incidentally, my wife is a chemist with a Masters degree. She doesn't make $34 an hour.
The real problem isn't teacher salaries... it's the fact that the wage scale is based on time, instead of merit.
The real problem isn't that teachers aren't doing a good job... it's that bad teachers are virtually impossible to remove from the classroom.
The real problem isn't that teachers don't teach the basics... it's that they're required to teach towards standardized tests.
The real problem isn't that teachers are underperforming professionals... it's that they're the lowest-paid professionals with the lowest authority to direct their own efforts (which also does nothing to draw higher-qualified folk who are making far more in the "real world").
I actually agree with you that secondary public school teachers (where I live) make more than they should when other similarly educated professionals make less--and pay their salaries as tax payers. That's not true everywhere, though. But I get really angry on these threads because of all the assumptions that teachers are stupid and do little work. It's just not true. That might apply to a few, but not most.
Sorry about the loss of your job. She loves teaching and I couldn't make her stop if I tried and yes teachers do get laid off if there are not enough students to make a class. People should remember that not all school districts are unionized and like Detroit and NYC.
One week at Christmas.
Two Days at Thanksgiving.
One or two days for Easter.
Usually a week in late February.
And yes, the regular Federal Holidays. MLK, President's Day, Memorial Day, Labor Day, Columbus Day, and, in some districts, Election Day.
Most public school teachers? Where do you get that? In the states I've lived in, a four year education degree gets you in the door--granted those with post-graduate degrees are paid more, but not significantly more. In my experience, I haven't seen post-grad degrees being a requirement.
And I'm not suggesting anything about what starting teachers make. I can only go by the information presented here.
This topic is one of my hot buttons. You are 1K% correct.
ITS THE POLITICIANS STUPID. Most people can't and won't see that. G. Bush and T. Kennedy foisted off the No Child left behind act on education and sent it further down the tube.
"People should remember that not all school districts are unionized and like Detroit and NYC."
That is a good point. I apologize for getting testy.
Given my situation, when I see somebody complaining about being paid good money in a job with a pretty much guaranteed position, it just digs me.
Again, sorry for being out of line.
If you don't understand my point, just say so. But to make silly excuses for incompetence of curricula and personnel is not helpful.
If the points you make were relevant, we'd have had these educational problems since before the founding of this nation.They are much more recent than that.
My wife is a chemist as well, with two Master's. One in Chemistry, and one in Chemical Education. She's starting a Doctorate in a few years to be able to teach Chem Education at the University level.
With her two Masters, she was offered a job at one of the local Chem/Pharm companies (Boehringer Ingelheim), where she'd be making more than twice what she's making now. However, teaching is important to her. She knew the benefits and pitfalls, and chose the teaching career.
No offense to you or your friend, but just as you want to slam what teachers make, what in the heck did your friend with a Masters in Psychology plan on doing with it? My point on college education is what many feel is a fair salary. People with degrees in engineering, Business management etc... expect and in most cases earn much more and everybody things they should earn it.
My wife chooses to teach because she loves it. She doesn't have to teach. My point is, everyone thinks teaching is a piece of cake. You want to talk about walking in shoes. I can almost gaurantee you that within a few months you would quit teaching because of the BS you have to put up with from parents, state and national requirements, stupid union influences etc..
No, I don't think they are stupid or anything of the sort. I just think that overall, they've got a pretty sweet deal.
I know that if I could do what I do and take three months off in the summer time in exchange for a 25% pay cut, I'd jump at it.
I've never understood the whining of teachers.
They get the summers off like CHILDREN.
They get every holiday off when they do work like CHILDREN.
They can get a summer job, like CHILDREN.
They whine like....well...forget it
I agree to the entire summary of your statements. My wife, as a teacher, agrees. She hatest the NEA. She also gets frustrated with those teachers who really do not care and were the ones who basically got in because nothing else worked out.
If we got unions out of the picture. If there could be a merit based tenure system. If parents supported the teachers, things would be much better.
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