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To: tpaine; UpAllNight
"We've been fighting about individual rights & states 'rights' since day one."

Individual rights such as a property owner's right to control access to his property and exclude others from his property...which is the individual right you want violated.

"Our 2nd prohibits infringements on peoples rights to own & carry arms."

Prohibited to the government.

Do you want to try reading the Preamble to the Bill of Rights again?

I've posted it at least thirty times for you, and you refuse to comment on it.

How about the discussions I posted for you from the Congressional record on the debates surrounding the creation of the Bil of Rights?

It would seem that the people who actually wrote the Bill of Rights into existence knew what they intended to do with it, and their clearly stated intention was to set limitations on the ability of the government to violate the rights of the people. Not as you claim to impose limitations on the people to control their private property.

Here...I'll post both things again:

Preamble to the Bill of Rights
THE Conventions of a number of the States having at the time of their adopting the Constitution, expressed a desire, in order to prevent misconstruction or abuse of its powers, that further declaratory and restrictive clauses should be added:

Declaratory and restrictive clauses added by the States to the Constitution so that the powers granted to the government by that Constitution could not be misconstrued or abused by the government created via said Constitution.

Here is James Madison's closing statement in his speech introducing the Bill of Rights to the Constitutional Convention, from The Annals of Congress, House of Representatives, First Congress, 1st Session, pp 448-460.

"Having done what I conceived was my duty, in bringing before this House the subject of amendments, and also stated such as I wish for and approve, and offered the reasons which occurred to me in their support, I shall content myself, for the present, with moving "that a committee be appointed to consider of and report such amendments as ought to be proposed by Congress to the Legislatures of the States, to become, if ratified by three-fourths thereof, part of the constitution of the United States." By agreeing to this motion, the subject may be going on in the committee, while other important business is proceeding to a conclusion in the House. I should advocate greater dispatch in the business of amendments, if I were not convinced of the absolute necessity there is of pursuing the organization of the Government; because I think we should obtain the confidence of our fellow- citizens, in proportion as we fortify the rights of the people against the encroachments of the Government."

"...the rights of the people against the encroachments of the government."

Now t...are you going to make the argument that the people who constructed the Bill of Rights were wrong about its intent?

402 posted on 01/28/2007 8:10:58 AM PST by Luis Gonzalez (Some people see the world as they would want it to be, effective people see the world as it is.)
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To: Luis Gonzalez
Madison:
"-- I think we should obtain the confidence of our fellow- citizens, in proportion as we fortify the rights of the people against the encroachments of the Government. --"

"...the rights of the people against the encroachments of the government."

Now t...are you going to make the argument that the people who constructed the Bill of Rights were wrong about its intent?

You simply don't understand their world luis. -- None of them ever imagined that some day we would have individual businessmen, - like you, - intent on denying a fellow- citizens right to carry arms in his vehicle.

The founders would have rode you out of town on a rail for posting a 'no guns allowed' sign on your business.

432 posted on 01/28/2007 9:10:32 AM PST by tpaine (" My most important function on the Supreme Court is to tell the majority to take a walk." -Scalia <)
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