[zook]

"Nope. Their slaves are kept in the mud. Only the Chi-Comm princelings are rising."

You really don't know what you're talking about, do you?

Have you been to China? Do you know any Chinese people? Do you know that unlike 30 years ago, Chinese citizens are free to leave the country? Travel where they like? Do you know that during the first weeks of the Iraq war, Chinese citizens could turn on their TVs and hear western journalists--and President Bush himself--outline the reasons for the war?

As I've said, China is not a democratic utopia, but it is a great place for those with a reasonable education to work and live. Considering the tremendous poverty that still exists there, the country is making great strides.

[Paul Ross]

You really don't know what you're talking about, do you?

Talking about yourself I see.

Have you been to China?

No. But I know many who have. And I have close friends there right now. And they have apparently dug deeper...and more skeptically... than you did

Do you know any Chinese people?

Yes. Many. The issue is, do you? Do you know how you are being played for a sap? Do you ever get a way from your "handlers"? I doubt it. You're still driven everywhere you go by a native.

Do you know that unlike 30 years ago, Chinese citizens are free to leave the country? Travel where they like?

Misrepresentation.

80% need political permission from their "work unit"... they aren't in those cities. Nor can thy move to them. Still. The ones who made it out are a select bunch. The PLA, "students" (spies) and New Economy bunches. Things have been made "easier" FOR THEM...but that is not the equivalent of "freedom" for all Chinese to leave or go where they like. The Ministry of Public Security amended their rules so that by 2005:

Chinese citizens in large and medium-sized cities who want to go abroad [forget the 80% of the populace] will be able to get a passport merely by presenting their identity cards and household registration documents to the proper authorities.

While currently, a Chinese citizen must go through complicated formalities when applying for a passport, including getting approval from his or her work unit, and producing household registration documents and other identification materials.

Since the vast majority of Chinese are still in the rural "Old Economy" zones, these rules remain very much in force against them.

[jmc813]

Have you been to China? Do you know any Chinese people? Do you know that unlike 30 years ago, Chinese citizens are free to leave the country?

Is the Roman Catholic Church allowed to exist there yet?