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To: Dreagon

"People are single nowadays because they were raised in a culture of narcissism. Marraige requires responsibility and sacrifice.....two concepts that are anathema to modern culture."

You also have to look at it from the point of view of those not married, and what they face with the prospects.

The women I meet are generally spoiled beyond control, and demand - yes demand - engagement rings that will put you in debt for decades. Then they demand the $50K wedding that takes a year to plan, driving everyone nuts, followed up by the $10-20K honeymoon to some idiotic "couple" resort, or the typical cliche Hawaii. Then, when you return, you are expected to buy the newest, biggest house in town, furnish it from the best of suppliers, and buy the newest, fanciest cars imaginable. All so your darling wife can lord it over everyone else.

Just the act of marrying these days can threaten to drain a man's bank account and put him in debt up to his eyeballs for years, if not decades. Men are to blame too, almost everyone I know lives beyond their means. Save money? Unheard of! I've dated women who started hinting around at week long vacations in Hawaai and such, and we'd only been dating a few weeks. I could afford to do that, but I'd have to save for a while, but they expect me to just throw it on a credit card.

In fact, many of the women I date are shocked and get quite chilly when I tell them i ripped up my credit cards and shut down the accounts, and don't plan on getting any new ones.

And heaven help you if you start dating someone near Valentine's Day - even casual dates now seem to expect diamonds and such. I'm sorry, but I need to be in a commited relationship, with some hope of it lasting, before I go there. I watch my friends drop hundreds on diamonds and flowers and candy and dinnder for V-day, and what do they get? Maybe a card. Maybe sex.

Feh. Dating is all about how much you spend on them these days. I HATE being measured like that - I'm very generous with my trusted friends, but I will not be a chump like that.

Then, you are expected to jump into the rat race and push as hard as you can for more money, all of the time, work the hours necessary, and still put in full time duty at home raising the kids, taking care of the million dollar McMansion, cooking, cleaning, and giving her as much "space" and "my time" as her whims desire. If you're good, you can watch the occasional football game, or play golf. Hobbies, dreams, desires, goals? Forget them, unless SHE approves, and they cater to her whim.

I know it's not all like that, but that's what I've seen my friends get trapped into year after year after year. Marriage for a lot of women these days is not so much a partnership to have and raise kids, but a guaranteed serf in the home who you can throw out on a whim, and never make a single sacrifice. (Yes, i know there are bad men too). Dating is just as bad. I've heard women tearing their boyfriends up because they did'nt spend enough on them, and their freinds telling them to dump him, and find someone who isn't "cheap".

Feh!

I'm looking for an old fashioned girl who knows that when you start out together, you may not have much, but you help each other get the things you want, who measures me by who I am, not what I spend. I'm tired of everything being about how much money you spend, and how expensive your toys are.

Here in CA, dealing with the women who were raised middle class or wealthy have expectations and demands of marriage and men that are pure fantasy, and impossible - but they'll make everyone around them miserable trying to get it.

I havent given up hope, but I know my search will be long and hard to find a good woman, and I've given up hope finding her in California. Even the transplants succumb to the spell eventually, and are ruined. For the time being, single is a much better existence than signing on teh dotted line for the insanity that the average woman offers a man these days.


148 posted on 01/23/2007 8:43:11 AM PST by ByDesign
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To: ByDesign

Most smart men are waiting until the go deaf to marry. Until then they have hunting fishing, enjoying their own money and all the peace and quiet they want. The mail order bride thing is strong in this country right now. There is a reason for that and in many ways it is sound reasoning.
The trophy wife on your arm isn't necessary any more. More deals are being made at hunting clubs than at expensive dinners with the wives.


152 posted on 01/23/2007 8:48:23 AM PST by oldenuff2no
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To: ByDesign
In fact, many of the women I date are shocked and get quite chilly when I tell them i ripped up my credit cards and shut down the accounts, and don't plan on getting any new ones.

Good! They just did you a big favor. They are disqualified. Just say "next!" and move on. Same with the engagement ring - the kind of spoiled brat who demands a big one should suffer an immediate revocation of the offer.

When men start playing hardball again, much of this bratty female behavior that has become endemic to our culture will cease. Fortunately - and despite media brainwashing - not all women are like this, so you have no reason to put up with those who are.

154 posted on 01/23/2007 8:50:38 AM PST by Mr. Jeeves ("When the government is invasive, the people are wanting." -- Tao Te Ching)
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To: ByDesign

You might try looking at church. I find that the most grounded women i meet are at church. Sadly almost all of them are taken :(.

A good percentage of the women i deal with outside of church are exactly like you describe. It stinks out here in california. Once good girls i knew have been completely morphed by this california lifestyle. Even the transplants too. It really is sad.


186 posted on 01/23/2007 9:34:35 AM PST by SDGOP
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To: ByDesign
No thanks....... I have the money to go to these types of resorts but you know what, I don't care for them. They are so "superficial". I just got back from taking vacation to New Zealand for three weeks. I did the backpacking thing. Stayed in Hostels. They are simple. I met quite a few people while there and hope to stay in touch over time. Sometime, I want to go back.

One of the things I realized when I was there was when people found out I was from the US, they asked how I pulled off taking three weeks off. I mentioned I decided to take the time. Comments were made on how us Americans kill ourselves working so much where we don't take time off and enjoy life. Here in America, the attitude is "live to work".

On the McMansion, screw that. We live in an 1800 ft^2 house. It is paid for. I bought my first new car ('06 Subaru WRX Turbo) last Summer - 7 years since my previous new vehicle. It will be paid off in June 2008. I also own a '91 P/U truck (bought used) and a 99 Jeep (bought new).

On the house, if we moved, I was thinking of doing a Modern Contemporary type which includes a lot of natural light. No cookie cutter type.

In my previous job where I worked for an @$$hole boss, the people who did well were the ones who worked the whole day Friday with some weekend work, did not take vacation or took a few days off here and there instead of a week or two. In fact, judgment was passed by management where if you didn't play the game of "keeping up with the Jones'", it hurt your career such as driving the latest, greatest car or SUV, participated in "approved activities" outside of work. Going 4x4'ing or riding motorcycles did not qualify. Also not being in heavy debt such as credit card and having your house paid for even though it was simple counted against you. One couple paid off their house in 5 years and owned only one car. That was looked down on by management since "The Man" could not "own them". It hurt my career since I had my house paid for and not other debt to speak of at the time. My @$$hole manager had the audacity to try to poke into my financial affairs and made comments such that I seem to have money and wealth and asked me how I got it. He then mentioned that being well off at a young age was not good for Society and I should think of Society in my financial decisions such as giving money to the "disadvantaged". I told him it was none of his business. He did not take that too kindly.

The women I meet are generally spoiled beyond control, and demand - yes demand - engagement rings that will put you in debt for decades. Then they demand the $50K wedding that takes a year to plan, driving everyone nuts, followed up by the $10-20K honeymoon to some idiotic "couple" resort, or the typical cliche Hawaii. Then, when you return, you are expected to buy the newest, biggest house in town, furnish it from the best of suppliers, and buy the newest, fanciest cars imaginable. All so your darling wife can lord it over everyone else.
226 posted on 01/23/2007 11:57:40 AM PST by CORedneck
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To: ByDesign
Get out of CA and you might have a shot.

And look on FR. I found my wife here and she is nothing like anything you describe.

watch my friends drop hundreds on diamonds and flowers and candy and dinnder for V-day, and what do they get?

Anyone that gives with the expectation of getting something in return for it is way off track. Doubly true for people that expect expensive gifts. Both are way off track.
If I offered my wife either a big diamond something-or-other, a new laptop, or a new handgun, she would be really torn... between the laptop and the handgun.

If you're good, you can watch the occasional football game, or play golf. Hobbies, dreams, desires, goals? Forget them, unless SHE approves

Anyone that marries someone who hates all their hobbies deserves what they get. Anyone that keeps their love ones from the things they love doing also deserves the misery they are buying.
237 posted on 01/23/2007 12:30:40 PM PST by TalonDJ
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