Navy Relieves Sub Commander After Deaths

AP via SFGate ^ | 1/19/7 | ANNE FLAHERTY

[SmithL]

The Navy announced Friday it relieved the commander of a nuclear submarine that was involved in an incident that killed two sailors.

On Dec. 29, rough seas swept four American sailors from the deck of the submarine off the coast of southwestern England. The USS-Minneapolis-St. Paul was leaving Plymouth harbor when the sailors were knocked into the water by surging waves. The four men were taken to a hospital in Plymouth, where two were pronounced dead.

According to officials, an initial review determined the incident was avoidable and due in part to a poor decision by the commander. A formal investigation is still under way. He was identified by a Navy statement as Cmdr. Edwin Ruff.

According to the Navy, Ruff was reassigned to a shore-based post in Norfolk, Va. The decision was made by Vice Adm. Chuck Munns, commander of the Navy's Submarine Force in Norfolk.

"Munns took this action due to a loss of confidence in Ruff's ability to command,"

[Polybius]

"The topside crew was still involved in that (harbor pilot transfer) when the sub cleared the breakwater and exposed the topside crew to the full force of the sea conditions beyond the breakwater" .... Polybius

If this is true, it betrays a severe lapse in judgement...... spanalot

Escorted by a Ministry of Defence police inflatable and a pilot launch, the submarine edged along the coast into Plymouth Sound. Sailors prepared for the dive and all seemed to be going smoothly until the submarine rounded the mile-long breakwater that keeps the water behind it relatively smooth. The boat hit open sea at around 12.45pm. Visibility was poor with driving rain and fog. Winds of more than 50mph and a big swell meant the submarine was rocking violently. ........ But men were still on the narrow deck trying to get the pilot who had guided the boat through the sound off the boat. As waves washed across the deck, the four men plunged into the water. ..... The emergency call went out to the coastguard at 12.47pm. An RAF helicopter was scrambled and a lifeboat and tug raced to the scene. ........ What still puzzles submarine experts and detectives is why the pilot was being put off so late in such poor conditions. One rescuer said: "We were amazed they were still out there in those conditions." Detective Sergeant Richard Bailey, of Devon and Cornwall police, said: "The issue for us was why they were on the deck in such rough seas." The survivors, who were treated at an RAF base in Cornwall, were also unable to say.

[spanalot]

Well it looks like absolute lack of seamanship.

They should put those officers in a johnboat with a 5 hp outboard and let them round that breakwater a few times to learn what breakwaters do.

[IonImplantGuru]

[snip] In those 10 years (68-78) did you get a chance to review the UCMJ? TT

I did 11 years, 62 - 73, which was a long time ago. CRS has fogged a great deal, but I still remember the phrase "... penetration, however slight ..."
Was in only the Navy that often had the UCMJ posted on the inside of head stall doors?
That ... and my service number are somehow etched in my memory forever.

[IonImplantGuru]

[snip]
And make no mistake about it. Attempting to conduct topside operations in 20ft swells is not competent seamanship. The weather conditions were no secret, and topside should have been cleared within 50 yards of the pier. There was no excuse in leaving sheltered waters before full rig for dive had been in place. You don't do what these guys did. An accident was not a likely outcome - it was going to happen, and with these guys in charge the death sentence was passed with the posting of the watch-bill.
My prayers for the sailors, dead and injured who did their duty as ordered. I have no sympathy for my fellow officers in command on that day.

Testify, brother! Amen.

[TexasTransplant]

>>>>>"penetration, however slight ..."<<<<<<

I guess when it comes to screwing the pooch just being on the same ship is penetration enough.

TT

[TexasTransplant]

I'm pretty sure that these folks in question have had more than johnboat experience, I take any AP story and "their facts" with more than a grain of salt, the Military has it's own PR front and they will be taken with another grain of salt.

The opinion of the media in all matters Military is very suspect.

TT

[spanalot]

It sounds like these boys were harnassed and beat up in the water against the hull - is that what you read?

[TexasTransplant]

Don't even get me into a stupid safety gear argument!