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To: MACVSOG68
Though I agree with your statement, what about the individuals who were loyal to the king and who would have agreed to not be armed? Were not their rights infringed upon by the founding fathers? Fast forward to today, and there are all types who say that the 2nd ONLY means for a militia, and that we don't have a modern day militia. Or that reasonable laws can be enacted to protect the rights of others. But enact this law, then that law, and then another law. All these laws to protect someones rights, but ultimately these enacted laws can totally remove someone else's rights.

Example being, some states (most now) have some form of conceal and carry, allowing individuals to carry a gun on their person. But the city of Chicago doesn't even allow handguns within city limits. What is considered a right in the majority of the nation, is outlawed in Chicago. Basically the 2nd amendment is null and void in Chicago.

44 posted on 01/10/2007 1:21:29 PM PST by mountn man (The pleasure you get from life, is equal to the attitude you put into it.)
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To: mountn man
Though I agree with your statement, what about the individuals who were loyal to the king and who would have agreed to not be armed? Were not their rights infringed upon by the founding fathers?

If we take the position that our rights exist whether or not they are guaranteed, then the same right existed under King George. If the right guaranteed by the Constitution in the 2d Amendment is not one of the natural rights guaranteed by our Creator, then in truth, it is not really a right, but a freedom or privilege. I won't argue that point one way or another, but to answer your question, recognizing a right exists does not take away any right from those not choosing to exercise that right.

Fast forward to today, and there are all types who say that the 2nd ONLY means for a militia, and that we don't have a modern day militia.

Yes, this is the interpretation of those who would sunset the 2d Amendment, but it does not wash. The reason given as an explanation for why the right existed, did not in any way include supplementary language limiting the right either because of time or changes in our society.

This same argument is used here on FR when 14th Amendment rights are discussed. It's irrelevant what the purpose was for the Country to ratify the 14th Amendment. The language in it is quite clear, just as it is with the 2d Amendment.

Or that reasonable laws can be enacted to protect the rights of others. But enact this law, then that law, and then another law. All these laws to protect someones rights, but ultimately these enacted laws can totally remove someone else's rights.

It's understood that in any society individual rights exist and must be protected. It is also understood that for society to function, those rights can and should be curbed to the extent they may have a deleterious effect on society as a whole. Do governments go to far? You bet. Then, our recourse is with the courts, the electoral process and the constitutional processes that exist.

What is considered a right in the majority of the nation, is outlawed in Chicago. Basically the 2nd amendment is null and void in Chicago.

Conceal and carry laws, which we here in South Carolina have also come with licensing requirements. I believe that laws prohibiting any firearm is a violation of the 2d Amendment. But there in Chicago, the citizens must take actions such as I mentioned above.

82 posted on 01/10/2007 1:54:45 PM PST by MACVSOG68
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To: mountn man
Fast forward to today, and there are all types who say that the 2nd ONLY means for a militia, and that we don't have a modern day militia.

We DO have a modern day militia. Congress has unilaterally and legally defined the militia as everyone in the National Guard, PLUS every able-bodied male aged 17-45.

Thus being a member thereof, I want my M4. ...funny, I suddenly hear the tune change...

86 posted on 01/10/2007 1:59:38 PM PST by ctdonath2
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