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To: smoketree
"Are you saying that the 2d is the only amendment that applies to government powers and that the people can never infringe on the "right" of the government to arm itself."

Originally, as written by the Founding Fathers, the Bill of Rights only applied to the federal government. By that I mean the only the federal government was forbidden from infringing on those rights. The states were free to infringe (and many did) as long as it wasn't against their own state constitution.

After the 14th amendment was ratified, activist courts used it to "incorporate" some (not all) of the BOR and make them applicable to the states, also. But, the 2nd and 3rd Amendments, the grand jury indictment clause of the 5th Amendment, and the 7th Amendment are not yet incorporated.

400 posted on 01/11/2007 12:37:59 PM PST by robertpaulsen
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To: robertpaulsen

Once again, are you saying that the constitution was never meant to be the supreme law of the land even though it says so?


403 posted on 01/11/2007 12:40:37 PM PST by smoketree (the insanity, the lunacy these days)
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To: robertpaulsen
Originally, as written by the Founding Fathers, the Bill of Rights only applied to the federal government.

Er.. no.

The right of the citizens to keep and bear arms has justly been considered, as the palladium of the liberties of the republic; since it offers a strong moral check against usurpation and arbitrary power of the rulers; and will generally, even if these are successful in the first instance, enable the people to resist and triumph over them. -St. George Tucker 1803.

The prescriptions in favor of liberty, ought to be levelled against that quarter where the greatest danger lies, namely, that which possesses the highest prerogative of power: But this [is] not found in either the executive or legislative departments of government, but in the body of the people, operating by the majority against the minority.

It may be thought all paper barriers against the power of the community are too weak to be worthy of attention…yet, as they have a tendency to impress some degree of respect for them, to establish the public opinion in their favor, and rouse the attention of the whole community, it may be one mean to control the majority from those acts to which they might be otherwise inclined. Proposing Bill of Rights to House, June 8, 1789

[T]he advantage of being armed, which the Americans possess over the people of almost every other nation, the existence of subordinate governments, to which the people are attached, and by which the militia officers are appointed, forms a barrier against the enterprises of ambition, more insurmountable than any which a simple government of any form can admit of. Notwithstanding the military establishments in the several kingdoms of Europe, which are carried as far as the public resources will bear, the governments are afraid to trust the people with arms. James Madison Federalist No. 46

I wish also, in revising the constitution, we may throw into that section, which interdicts the abuse of certain powers in the state legislatures, some other provisions of equal if not greater importance than those already made. The words, "No state shall pass any bill of attainder, ex post facto law, &c." were wise and proper restrictions in the constitution. I think there is more danger of those powers being abused by the state governments than by the government of the United States. The same may be said of other powers which they possess, if not controuled by the general principle, that laws are unconstitutional which infringe the rights of the community. I should therefore wish to extend this interdiction, and add, as I have stated in the 5th resolution, that no state shall violate the equal right of conscience, freedom of the press, or trial by jury in criminal cases; because it is proper that every government should be disarmed of powers which trench upon those particular rights. I know in some of the state constitutions the power of the government is controuled by such a declaration, but others are not. I cannot see any reason against obtaining even a double security on those points; and nothing can give a more sincere proof of the attachment of those who opposed this constitution to these great and important rights, than to see them join in obtaining the security I have now proposed; because it must be admitted, on all hands, that the state governments are as liable to attack these invaluable privileges as the general government is, and therefore ought to be as cautiously guarded against. James Madison Proposing Bill of Rights to House, June 8, 1789

"The constitutions of most of our States assert that all power is inherent in the people; that they may exercise it by themselves in all cases to which they think themselves competent (as in electing their functionaries executive and legislative, and deciding by a jury of themselves in all judiciary cases in which any fact is involved), or they may act by representatives, freely and equally chosen; that it is their right and duty to be at all times armed; that they are entitled to freedom of person, freedom of religion, freedom of property, and freedom of the press." --Thomas Jefferson to John Cartwright, 1824. ME 16:45

"What country can preserve its liberties if its rulers are not warned from time to time that their people preserve the spirit of resistance? Let them take arms. The remedy is to set them right as to facts, pardon and pacify them." --Thomas Jefferson to William Stephens Smith, 1787. ME 6:373, Papers 12:356

"[The first step is] to concur in a declaration of rights, at least, so that the nation may be acknowledged to have some fundamental rights not alterable by their ordinary legislature, and that this may form a ground work for future improvements." --Thomas Jefferson to John Jay, 1788. ME 7:18, Papers 13:190

Do you REALLY need to say them same easily refuted BS on every thread Bobby?

410 posted on 01/11/2007 1:05:46 PM PST by Dead Corpse (Anyone who needs to be persuaded to be free, doesn't deserve to be.)
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