Wal-Mart Employees Seek More Damages

Yahoo ^

[A. Pole]

Sarcasm?

Deadly serious. During my experience with helping to organize Solidarity (in Poland twenty six years ago) I realized that people cannot be free unless they organize themselves.

[Boston Blackie]

Everyone has the right to organize or not...it should not be mandatory to belong to a union in order to work in America..IMHO.

[Warhammer]

So that all chances of advancement would be based on your seniority, not how well you do your job? That's what happens in unionized industries here in the States.

Unions do not allow for merit-based pay. It's all based on how long you have been on the job, not how well you have done your job.

Not only that, they pigeonhole you into a particular cog in the wheel. Need to move a table in your office? Can't just take 5 minutes to move it in a union shop, you have to submit a maintenance request and let them get to you two weeks later. Otherwise, the union maintenance guy will file a grievance because you were doing "his job". Meanwhile, your project schedule takes a hit that could have been easily avoided with some common sense, as opposed to following union rules.

The difference is that you cannot appoint/vote for the management of the insurance company but in the union you could.

And that management that you have to vote for runs on the platform of how many goodies can they squeeze out of the eeevil management to the point that they make their industries noncompetitive and bankrupt their companies (see United Airlines, Delta Airlines and others who used to have a great employer-provided pension plan that the unions destroyed by their tactics.) A union will end up hurting it's workers that way, but the fat-cat union bosses still get their money and to heck with the folks that they are supposed to be helping

Now was there a time for unions? Certainly. But their time has past. Folks have got to realize that they're on the same team in a company.

Long term, companies have to realize that for the most part if they treat their employees fairly they will get great results. Companies that cling to old management-labor paradigms will go the way of the dinosaurs.

[LadyNavyVet]

America is not Poland of twenty-six years ago. We are not trying to get out from under the yoke of communism, we are trying to keep from going under it.

In this country unions have become tools of the Democrats and forces for socialism. They are unecessary and ultimately damaging to those who desire good jobs at decent wages. Toyota makes a profit in this country; GM does not. One of the main reasons for this is unions. Toyota workers have jobs with good wages and benefits; GM workers are losing theirs.

If employees make themselves valuable enough to their employers, they will receive good wages and benefits. Conversely, if they do jobs that anyone could do (most WalMart jobs, burger flippers, etc.) or do their jobs poorly, then they will always be fighting an uphill battle to earn decent wages. That is a result of the free market. The good thing is that anyone is free to do the things that are necessary (gain skills, get an education, work harder and smarter than the next guy) to make himself or herself a valued employee. In such a system everyone benefits--the employee earns more money, the employer earns more profit. Win-win.

Should WalMart have people working off the books? Of course not. But as we see from this case, America has a system in place to ensure that such abuses are kept to a minimum and that employees are compensated when abuses occur. It is a system of checks and balances, and it works a whole lot better than any money- and freedom-grabbing union ever could.

[A. Pole]

Everyone has the right to organize or not...it should not be mandatory to belong to a union in order to work in America..IMHO.

You are right, I oversimplified. The actual implementation would be more flexible - you could ask for conscientious objector status for such case like:

Being a Objectivist or Libertarian or Anarchist or Free Market fundamentalist.

Being a Linux consultant who does not take bath

Your religion does not permit you to belong, like Cult of Management Worshipers for example.)

Having a case of ochlophobia (fear of crowd)

I am sure you would find some category to save you from this calamity.

Of you course you would have to forgo some privileges the union members would enjoy, but it will be small price to pay in you eyes.

[brownsfan]

"I realized that people cannot be free unless they organize themselves."

Unions are not the vehicle. I don't have a great answer, but I do know what goes wrong in a union. They make government corruption look like just some innocent fooling around. I understand the need for unions in some cases, but big unions = big corruption.

Mandatory union membership? Why half step? Why not just hand your money over to the government and the government can give you what you need? The government will negotiate for you, and you'll be cared for.

That's freedom?

[A. Pole]

advancement would be based on your seniority

Sure it beats having to train some young twerp from India to be your replacement after you worked in company for 20 years.

[A. Pole]

Now was there a time for unions? Certainly. But their time has past.

For a while, now the time IS BACK!

Folks have got to realize that they're on the same team in a company.

Not anymore, baby.

[Boston Blackie]

Death to the infidels!

[A. Pole]

In this country unions have become tools of the Democrats and forces for socialism.

In my plan you could join ANY unions, even Republican Conservative one. And you could organize the new one.

[A. Pole]

But as we see from this case, America has a system in place to ensure that such abuses are kept to a minimum and that employees are compensated when abuses occur.

Yeah, lawyers and multimillion court cases.

[LadyNavyVet]

Your plan is idealistic and impractical. It takes away peoples' individual freedom and makes them just more pawns of the collective. Whether that collective marches under the banner of socialism or conservative republicanism, it is still a collective. No thanks.

Why should an employee have to be a member of a union to negotiate with management? Under unions, stellar employees have no incentive to achieve, since they will receive the same wages and benefits as those who sit around with their feet up all day. Leeches have no incentive to do anything, other than when the boss is around. This affects productivity and reduces the company's flexibility and opportunity to earn profits.

[Alberta's Child]

I would be in favor of making unions membership mandatory for everybody who works.

I'm sure you would.

I'd quit on the spot if you ever came to work for my employer.

[lucysmom]

Not only that, they pigeonhole you into a particular cog in the wheel. Need to move a table in your office? Can't just take 5 minutes to move it in a union shop, you have to submit a maintenance request and let them get to you two weeks later. Otherwise, the union maintenance guy will file a grievance because you were doing "his job". Meanwhile, your project schedule takes a hit that could have been easily avoided with some common sense, as opposed to following union rules.

Sounds a lot like what happens when a company decides to outsource services that were once handled in-house. However, because outsourcing is usually management's bright idea, only the underlings complain.

[lucysmom]

And that management that you have to vote for runs on the platform of how many goodies can they squeeze out of the eeevil management to the point that they make their industries noncompetitive and bankrupt their companies (see United Airlines, Delta Airlines and others who used to have a great employer-provided pension plan that the unions destroyed by their tactics.) A union will end up hurting it's workers that way, but the fat-cat union bosses still get their money and to heck with the folks that they are supposed to be helping

Not unlike the fat-cat network that determines CEO compensation.

[Lancey Howard]

There is an alternative to the lawyers and government intervention: unions. Let workers organize and fight for their rights together. I would be in favor of making unions membership mandatory for everybody who works. Hey, let even managers have their own unions!

Oooo.... Good thinking!
Maybe someday the US could be as great as France!

[lucysmom]

Why should an employee have to be a member of a union to negotiate with management? Under unions, stellar employees have no incentive to achieve, since they will receive the same wages and benefits as those who sit around with their feet up all day.

Executive compensation is negotiated with the help of attorneys.

Couldn't we also ask what incentive corporate executives have to preform when severance packages net them more money than most of us can earn in several lifetimes of work? What impact do you think it has on the average employee to watch a CEO preside over a 40% decline in the value of his company and walk away from the failure wealthy, while he gets laid-off in the subsequent restructuring?

[B-Chan]

most of them are pretty nice places.

Nope. Nine out of ten are dumps. Steer clear unless you like ghetto gangbangers, trailer trash, and borrachos.*

FRIEND: I don't get you. Wal-Mart is cheaper. Why do you always shop at Target?

B-CHAN: because no one has ever tried to sell me half-wolf puppies out of a cardboard box in the parking lot at Target.

NOTE: I'm not saying that everyone from the ghetto or who lives in a trailer is a bad person. There are lots of fine folks living in both environments, just as there are plenty of trashy people living in pricey suburbs. These terms are verbal shorthand only.

[B-Chan]

"...if they do jobs that anyone could do (most WalMart jobs, burger flippers, corporate CEOs, etc.)...

Q. What's the difference between a burger-flipper and the CEO of Home Depot?

A. The burger-flipper doesn't get a $216 million severance package when he screws up his job.

[B-Chan]

"Folks have got to realize that they're on the same team in a company."

LOL.

If everyone's on the same team in your average corporation, how come management gets rewarded for screwing up their jobs (big-bux severance packages) while the salaried schlubs and line-monkeys get nothing but a kick in the ass?

You and I both know that most companies fail due to bad management, not bad work. Yet when things go to hell it's the least responsible (the rank and file) who get hurt, while those who ran the company into the ground float safely to Earth on golden parachutes. Some "team"!