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To: AppyPappy
[lying to infidels]

Reference please.

taqiyya

In Shi'a Islamic as well as Druze tradition, Taqiyya (ÇáÊÞíÉ - 'fear, guard against')[1] is the dispensation allowing believers to conceal their faith when under threat, persecution or compulsion. It is based on Qur'an verses 3:28 and 16:106 as well as hadith, tafsir literature, and juridical commentaries.[2] Some Sunnis assert that Taqiyya is an act of hypocrisy that serves to conceal the truth. According to them, Taqiyya constitutes a lack of faith and trust in God because the person who conceals his beliefs to spare himself from danger is fearful of humans, when he should be fearful of God only.
http://www.answers.com/topic/taqiyya


34 posted on 01/03/2007 10:22:10 AM PST by Max in Utah (WWBFD? "What Would Ben Franklin Do?")
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To: Max in Utah

Oddly, I was told the same thing about Jews i.e. that Jews can lie without consequence to non-Jews. Oddly, they never knew a definitive source for the belief. After 9/11, I heard the exact same thing about the Muslims.

It sounds like they are alowed to conceal their faith in certain circumstances. I hope Obama doesn't know this one.


38 posted on 01/03/2007 10:26:35 AM PST by AppyPappy (If you aren't part of the solution, there is good money to be made prolonging the problem.)
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To: Max in Utah

Lying for Allah is okay, according to the eminent Islamic scholar Imam Ghazali, who wrote:

" When it is possible to achieve such an aim by lying but not by telling the truth, it is permissible to lie if attaining the goal is permissible " (Ref: Ahmad Ibn Naqib al-Misri, The Reliance of the Traveller, translated by Nuh Ha Mim Keller , Amana publications, 1997, section r8.2, page 745).

Imam Ghazali does not say this without knowledge. He is basing his fatwa on the words and examples of the Prophet himself.

In one hadith we read that the prophet calls upon his followers to assassinate Ka’b ibn Ashraf, the chief of a Jewish tribe who was wary of Muhammad and tells them it is okay to tell a lie to deceive him. Bukhari, Volume 5, #369

The fact is that Muslims feel no pang of conscience to lie if that lie is said for Allah’s sake and his religion. If the lie is said for a good cause it is okay.

(...) Muhammad said: "Lying is wrong, *except in three things: the lie of a man to his wife to make her content with him; a lie to an enemy, for **war is deception; or a lie to settle trouble between people" (Ahmad, 6.459. H).

(...) *Islam is the only religion that implies in it's scriptures that it's ever permissible to lie.

(...) **any non Muslim land is considered Dar ul Harb a land of war


39 posted on 01/03/2007 10:29:02 AM PST by 2banana (My common ground with terrorists - they want to die for islam and we want to kill them)
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To: Max in Utah
Taqiyya (ÇáÊÞíÉ - 'fear, guard against')[1] is the dispensation allowing believers to conceal their faith when under threat, persecution or compulsion.

Is that what people here are always screaming about? Seems pretty uncontroversial to me. Christianity had that debate in the 3rd century, and it was eventually decided that while hiding the fact that you were a Christian during persecution wasn't a great thing, it wasn't something that should kick you out of the church either, which was what some of the hardliners had wanted.

49 posted on 01/03/2007 10:42:46 AM PST by SpringheelJack
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